LL-L "Names" 2003.09.02 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 02.SEP.2003 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Allison Turner-Hansen <hallison at gte.net>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.09.01 (11) [E]

Dear Luc, Ron,
    Thank you for the fascinating information below!  I had been wondering
about this for some time.
Cheers,
Allison Turner-Hansen

> From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
> Subject: Names
>
> Beste Allison (en andere liëglanners),
>
> >So my question is: is the -loo in 'Waterloo' the same as this -lo in
> >'Morslo'?   If not, do any of you know what it might be?
>
> I couldn't tell you for sure, but it's quite likely. The reason is that
> "lo(o)" can mean 4 different things in the Lowlands: 1) grassy place in a
> forest with low timber, also woodland in general 2) low lying marshland,
> especially in West-Flanders and Brabant 3) creek (being short for "lode"
or
> "loet" 4) location (~ Latin "locus")
> The original denotation may have been: an open forest interspersed with
> grasslands (~ Latin "lucus"). After clearing those woods, meaning number
2)
> naturally came into being.
> Anyway, in the case of "Waterloo", it's not certain that the first part
> "water" is "Wasser" (G), "water" (E), but rather would it reflect the
> Brabantish pronunciation of the name "Wouter" (D), "Walter" (E), both
> derived of "Waldhari", just like it is passed on in the name of a nearby
> village called "Woutersbrakel" (D), "Wauthier-Braine" (French).
>
> Kind greetings,
>
> Luc Hellinckx
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Names
>
> Thanks for the above, Luc.
>
> This/these "suffix(es)" frequently occur(s) in German place names as well,
> especially in northern ones, such as in Oldesloe (also Oldeslo in the
> Netherlands), Alvensloe, Gütersloh, Getelo, Löhe, Lohe, sometimes hidden,
as
> in Fintel (< *Ventlo).  This tends to be explained as meaning "wood(s)",
> "grove."
>
> I assume English -low and -loe are related to this; e.g. Fenton Low,
Cauldon
> Low, Grounds Low, Barlow, Botteslow, Warslow, Harlow, Cottesloe.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

You're entirely welcome, Allison, and I'm sure I can safely speak for Luc as
well.

Your question reminded me of a folk etymology all my own.   I had developed
it when I had barely outgrown my teens, had already developed a healthy (?)
appetite for etymology but had not yet cultivated the (in Fiete's opinion
unhealthy) habit of systematically checking etymological dictionaries.

I had wondered about the origin of the non-American English word "loo" for
what Americans prudely call "restroom," and I convinced myself that it had
started off as some smart Cockney-style coinage: "water closet" (WC) >
"Waterloo" > "loo."  In the meantime I have been taught that "loo" is
supposed to have been derived from French _lieu d'aisance_ ("place of ease")
with the same meaning.  But I still think my theory was at least cute.

Back to names, folks.  I think it would be interesting to compile a short
list of "basic" given ("first") names in the various Lowlands languages.
Alas, in Lowlands Saxon (Low German) of Germany the original ones are being
forgotten fast, though I have heard about some younger North Germans who
have been giving their children LS names like Willem, though they cannot
compete with the longstanding fashion among North German to give their
children Scandinavian names.  Also, the name Katrin ['k_hatrin] (equivalent
of German Katharina [k_hat_ha'ri:na] and Kathrine [k_ha'tri:n@]) has been
enjoying a comeback for a few decates now.  Frisian names used to be very
popular just after World War II; e.g., Uwe, Heino and Frauke.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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