LL-L "Phonology" 2003.09.08 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Kenneth Rohde Christiansen <kenneth at gnu.org>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2003.09.07 (03) [E]

We have that in Western Jutish as well - it used to be standard in
Scandinavian but disappeared in the Copenhagen area (Colloquial Danish)
and there was a language meeting where they [the language unions of
Sweden, Norway and Denmark] decided to remove them from the spelling
system. The norwegians didn't remove them and they are still pronounced
(in a different way though) but they did in Swedish and Danish - but
they are still "pronounced" in Swedish as well.

Anyway, we have j after k, and g, when they are followed by æ/a or ø.

kjærlighej
Gjørding
gjør
kjarl
Kjøwenhavn (København/Copenhagen)

Cheers, Kenneth

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From: Andy (Scots-Online) <andy at scots-online.org>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" [E/S]

Sandy Fleming wrote:

>In Scots we only drop our "h"'s in unemphatic pronouns and a handful of
>other words. Examples are "hotel", "hospital", "herb" being pronounced
>without the "h".

>In some dialects of Scots a "y" sound /j/ is added before an initial vowel,
>eg "aits" (oats) -> /jIts/, "earth" -> /jIrT/, "ane" (one) -> /jIn/, "erb"
>(herb) -> /jIrb/. Some of these usages are more widespread than others.

Dan Ryan-Prohaska wrote:

>I was aware of this breaking process in some Scots dialects, though I don't
>know which ones exactly. Maybe one of our Scots experts can shed some light
>on that.

This dissimilation of /e/ usually occurs initially and after /h/ e.g. able,
aiblins (perhaps), aik (oak), aits (oats), ane (one), hale (whole) and hame
(home) etc. producing /jI/ or /hjI/ or similar e.g. /hjE/. As far as I am
aware this is typical of southern Scots (Borders) and the southern Lothians.

Sandy wrote:

>There's this seems to me to be widespread but variable amongst Scots
>dialects. On this list Colin Wilson has said he pronounces "ane" as "e:n"
>while I pronounce it /jIn/, and yet we both pronounce "uise/uize" with a
/j/
>(/jIs/, je:z/ in my case).

>My feeling is that some could possibly be explained as breaking, but others
>not:

>uize/yaize
>ane/yin
>ae/yae
>ance/yince
>aiblins/yiblins
>airth/yirth
>ale/yill
>aits/yits

Do you distinguish between the verb uise /je:z/ and the noun uiss /jIs/?

>I suppose that "uise/uize" are a different case as the /j/ is also
>pronounced in English, while the others are Scots - perhaps it's mainly an
>/e:/ -> /jI/ process.

I assume different if perhaps similar processes are at work between aik
(oak), ane (one) and the initial /j/ in uise/uiss the latter stemming from
an older /ø/ Anglo-Saxon /o:/.

Colin's dialect seems to be on the 'border' between the northern /e/ - /i/
in ane and <ui> (/e/ long, /I/ short) - northern /i/. I assume the /i/ in
ane devolped further north and hasn't reached Colins's dialect yet. The <ui>
(/e:/ long, /i/ short) seems to have originated in the Lothians and has been
spreading outwards since and seems to have started to influence some words
in Colins Dialect.

Andy Eagle

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2003.09.07 (01) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Phonology
>
> Anja wrote (above):
>
> > In Swedish it is "jord" and in Old-Icelandic it is
> "jarð". In LS it is
> still
> > "Eer(d)".
>
> The commonly used German-based LS spelling (used for
> the dialects in
> Germany) is very misleading here to the uninitiated.
>  The underlying
> representation has a dipthong: (/eirde/ >)
> /eird(e)/.  So the spelling <ee>
> here represents the diphthong /ei/, which German
> does not have and this
> orthographic system thus "ignores."  (In my
> "Neo-Hanseatic" system I write
> the word _eyrd'_.)  Since the /-e/ is dropped and
> this still affects the
> pronunciation of the rest in most dialects, this
> diphthong is extra long --
> i.e., three beats instead of the usual two.  In such
> cases (of _Schleifton_
> "dragging tone"),
[...]
-------------------
Hi,

Now I am making problems, but I'm sure you will solve
it:
about this 'three beats' and 'dragging tone' :
could you also / insteadof say that this is a
triphtong / thriphtong?

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Hoi, Theo!

I wouldn't call that "trouble."

I was trying to "popularize" this by using muscial analogy (which is not
uncommon these days).  If we count a short vowel as one beat, a long vowel
get two beats; e.g.,

d a g  'day' (1) [daX]
d aa g e  'days' (2, 1) ['dQ:Ge]
> d aaa g'   'days' (3 < 2+1) [dQ:.G]

So it's "short," "long" and "extra-long."  The last of these is referred to
as _Überlänge_ or _Schleifton_ in German terminology.  This three-lengths
system is essentially the same as that of Estonian, though the causes of
extra-length may be different.  I understand someone wrote a dissertation on
this.

This is not the same as triphthongs.  These, too, are used in many Lowlands
Saxon (Low German) dialects, such as those of the Lower Elbe region, where
/ou/ sounds a bit like [eoU], much like in Southern English and in
Australian English as in _to_ [t_heoU] 'to', sounds like "toe" or "tow"
pronounced in the said English dialects.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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