LL-L "Language contacts" 2003.09.14 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 14.SEP.2003 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Language contacts"

> From: James Fortune <jamesrfortune at hotmail.com>
> Subject: germanic vs latinate parts of english
>
> Mark,
> You wrote:
>
> "The Germanic side of English just seems so much more "down to earth" than
> the intellectually high-falutin' Latin side of English."
>
> I remember reading something in the Sunday Times that talked
> about this. It
> conducted a wee bit o research into the modes of speach used by lawyers,
> politicians, and other professional "liars" ;-) and noticed that people it
> those professions tended to use a higher proportion of latinate words than
> anyone else - the politician John Reid uses more than the Queen! The study
> suggested that there was a link between lots of latinate words, and a lack
> of clarity. I wonder if latinate words tend to have more meanings
> than good
> germanic ones?

When it says a "link" I take it they menat a "correlation" (a good example
of obfuscation by choosing the Germanic-looking rather than the Latinate
word, so the article demonstrates the invalidity of its own premise :)

The trouble with a correlation is that it doesn't tell you much that would
be useful in formulating a theory (a decorrelation is usually much more
useful).

For example an actual study would probably reveal a strong correlation
between foot size and spelling ability in children, and yet there's no link.
In fact they're both linked to a third variable - age - but not directly to
each other. False correlations abound (whereas decorrelations are almost
always telling you something valid).

When it comes to professional liars, it's not that using Latinate words
results in lack of clarity, it's that using too many makes a sentence hard
to follow (it can also make the sentence meaningless, but that's a separate
issue).

An example sentence (just an example, there's not necessarily any truth in
the statement):

"Stories about women's emancipation are often exaggerated."

Many Romance words in English are perceived as Germanic just because they
don't look Latinate, but for the example I'll just stick to Germanising the
two Latinate-looking words:

"Stories about women getting their freedom often stretch the truth."

I don't think this is quite so clear: if someone used this construction in
English it might indicate a (not very severe) lack of education - although
in Scots this sort of thing is more in the spirit of the language (but
again, is that due to the unavailability of education in Scots?).

Anyway, the Latinate words were more specific and allowed a cleaner
correspondence between word and concept.

Similiarly, you could Latinise the sentence a bit:

"Narratives regarding feminine emancipation frequently involve
exaggeration."

So it looks like Latinisation is a more effective way of obscuring the
truth, which is most likely why professional liars choose to talk this way.

So the third variable is "obfuscation" and the true correlations are between
professional liars and their preference for obfuscation, and unbalanced
English being obfuscatory.

However, the clearest sentence is probably still the original, and the
clearest English involves the correct balance of Germanic and Latinate
words.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language contacts

Very interesting, James and Sandy!

In German, too, Romance and Greek loans are used more the more "educated"
the language is supposed to sound and the more the jargon is designed to
keep out the "riff-ruff."  In some cases this seems to be deliberate; in
other cases this happens because the specialist jargon plucks into
international terminology.  For instance, physicians use international
specialist terms amongst themselves and use corresponding German terms (e.g.
of diseases) with the general public.  On top of it, especially among
academics, lawyers and bureaucrats, very complex, convoluted syntactic
constructions are used (virtually always needlessly) to make the language
less accessible, though they would probably argue it's for the sake of
clarity.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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