LL-L "Phonology" 2003.09.19 (13) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 19.SEP.2003 (13) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ruud Harmsen <rha at rudhar.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2003.09.19 (03) [E]

>From: Frédéric Baert <baert_frederic at CARAMAIL.COM>
>Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2003.09.17 (06) [E]
>I was sure that nasal vowels in french West Flemish wasn't an influence
>from French because my Flemish has numerous nasal vowels that don't
exist
>in French. This makes flemish hard to pronounce for a French-speaking
>person (I tried to make a friend pronounce "joenge", English "boy",
and she
>was never able to say it!). I thought that, if nasal vowels were a
French
>influence, West Flemish would have the same nasal vowels or less than
>French, but not more!
>Now you said me that lowlands Saxon dialects have noticeable vowel
>nasalisation before nasal consonants too. I don't think it's an
influence
>from French! So nasal vowels in french West Flemish must be an
influence
>from old Saxon. But is it impossible to think that old Frankish
also had
>nasal vowels now lost in standard Dutch? In this case nasal vowels in
>French could also be another inheritance from old Frankish!

Possibly.
Note that Frisian has nasalized (I prefer to call them) vowels too,
and so have many accents of American English. And they occur
(non-phonemically, I think) in Amsterdam accents of Dutch.
--
http://rudhar.com/index/whatsnew.htm

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From: Terrence Connor <tconnor at broadpark.no>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2003.09.19 (03) [E]

Subject: Phonology
God dag lavlenderne!

I am assuming nasal sound is the same as a palatal sound. I cant see that
they can be too different if at all.
In the norwegian trønder dialect they palatalise "n" ......

"han hund i band" which means "male dog on a leash" becomes
"hanŋ hunŋ i banŋ"

They do the same with "d" e.g. kald becomes "kaljlj"

They aslo have "palatalisering"(no.) in Nord-Norge but not as much.

Terrence

> From: Frédéric Baert <baert_frederic at CARAMAIL.COM>
> Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2003.09.17 (06) [E]
>
> >From: Frédéric Baert <baert_frederic at CARAMAIL.COM>
> >Subject: phonology
> >
> >Goen Dag!
> >
> >In my french Western Flemish, all vowels followed by "n" or even by "gen"
> >are nasalised. This nasalisation can make verbs like "zeggen"
> >(English "say") very different in their pronunciation than in standard
> >Dutch despite of same orthography. I know that nasalisation of vowels
> >followed by "n" also occured in French, Portuguese and Polish.
> >
> >Can anyone tell me if nasalisation of vowels also occurs in belgian West
> >Flemish and in other lowlandic languages?
> >Thank you
> >
> >Frederic Baert

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From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Phonolgy


Dear Lowlanders,

Years ago I was taught that one of the main features of the 'Berlin' dialect
was the pronunciation of  _g_ just the same as _ j _ (=English 'y'); thus
one would say: "Ich hab' een jut jebratene jans jejessen" for "Ich habe ein
gut gebratenes Gans gegessen" (I ate a well-roasted goose).

Can anyone tell me (a) Was this really a feature of Berlinisch? I haven't
visited the city for years, but when I really can't recall hearing it,
except maybe sometimes at the beginning of Past Participles in ge-.

 (b) Was this a feature of the urban dialect of Berlin, or was it also to be
heard in the rural dialects of the surrounding areas?

And (c) Is it still used in the modern cosmopolitan city?

Thank you all in advance for any light you can shed on the matter.

John

Preston, UK.

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