LL-L "Language survival" 2004.04.01 (03) [E/French]

Thu Apr 1 18:54:27 UTC 2004

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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L "Language survival" 2004.04.01 (02) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language survival
>
> Hi again, Roger, FrÃ©dÃ©ric, Lowlanders!
>
> I'm practising speaking on both sides of my mouth this April Fool's
morning.

Ron,

I think (unfortunately) your previous message may be closer to the reality.

"Having heard their parents talk "Flemish"" is also counted for Flemish.

Further, there are some intellectuals promoting a regional identity, as
e.g.on:
http://www.alliance-regionale.org/
for the total of Nord-Pas-de-Calais (called "Pays-Bas franÃ§ais" by them)

Also Germanic roots are digged up, as e.g. in the vocabulary of the
"Boulonnais" area, e.g. on url:
http://membres.lycos.fr/histopale/FLOBARD.htm
They claim for an extensive Flemish vocabulary in their local Picard (part B
of the quotation).

--- Quote:
8. Lexique flamand en Boulonnais
Les Boulonnais continuent Ã  user de mots et expressions d'origine flamande
et leur vocabulaire ne se limite pas Ã  la seule appellation des navires.
Leur lexique flamand est trÃ¨s variÃ© mais je me bornerai Ã  ne citer que les
termes concernant le monde maritime.

A)Lexique de l'ancienne langue du pays parlÃ©e jusqu'au XIVe siÃ¨cle.
Al : anguille, ankre : ancre, arndegarhdere : filet de pÃªche en lin, bac :
cuve, baetman : transbordeur, banc: aire de sable, bardevise : poisson Ã
tÃªte barbue, bate : petit bateau, batel : petit bateau, bescipent :
embarquer, bleckere : Ã©corcheur, bord : planche, bote : hotte, botere :
fabricant de hottes, brigge : pont, benorden : au nord de, beauden : au sud
de, bosten : Ã  l'est de, busten : Ã  l'ouest de, calewe : bÃ©cassine, cent
cÃ´te, bord ; clikeboud : rivet, clinchamer : marteau Ã  rivet, clinket :
vanne, coich : marchand, coighighe : marchande, colier : dÃ©bardeur,
corfharing : hareng vendu en panier, crane : grue, cupere : tonnelier,
dagheraet : aurore, deine houle, dip : profond, doke : bassin, dougghe
dogre, dun : dune, duve : pigeon, escerpis : tranchant, flet : limande,
galeile : galÃ¨re, gate : passe, gharntvast : cÃ¢ble, ghernden : filet ramendÃ©
avec du fil, ghervischg : poisson pointe, ghose : oie, hammer : marteau, hap
: bÃ¢che, haring : hareng, haven : port, heliboud : fletan, helminghe :
terrain couvert d'oyats, hole : creux ; hond : chien, horte : choc, intost :
vers l'est, iscot : impÃ´t, jegharwet : tannÃ©, kempe : chanvre, kone : hardi,
kyme : horizon, last : charge, leed : canal, linin toile, luke : panneau,
mate : mesure, mauwe mouette, mellen : ramender, mellewerf : atelier de
ramendage, melnare : rÃ©parateur de filets, merckt marchÃ©, magre : maquereau,
mande : corbeille, mes : couteau, mester : maÃ®tre, mossele : moule, naghel :
clou, neder : d'aval, nord : nord, oie huile, ontladen : dÃ©charger, ontwerde
: faire de l'orage, opper : d'amont, ore : rive, ost : est, ostre : huÃ®tre,
over : au-dessus de, overdragen transporter, panre : panier, passagier :
paquebot, payelle : mesure de capacitÃ©, poderen : pÃªcher l'anguille, reep :
ficelle, reper : cordier, reule sorte de poisson, ries : audacieux,
roermatte gouvernail roghe : raie, rote : sorte de poisson, saine : sorte de
chalut, sant : sable, scagt : perche, schip : bateau, scoetvel : tablier,
scot : Ã©cossais, scrodere : dÃ©chergeur, scute : barque, scuteman batelier,
slus : Ã©cluse, smit : forgeron, smoder usure, spodenisgh : Ã©viscÃ©reur,
spouden : Ã©viscÃ©rer, spouddinghe : atelier d'Ã©viscÃ©rage, sprot sprat,
stabboem : dÃ©barcadÃ¨re, stade : jetÃ©e, stake : poteau, stapel : entrepÃ´t,
stare : Ã©toile, sticken : piquer, stien : pierre, stierem : piloter,
stierman : pilote, stoc : bÃ¢ton, stouppin : Ã©toupe, stoud : hardi,
audacieux, tÃ©mÃ©raire, intrÃ©pide tannigghe : tanneuse, tanninghe : tannage,
tannhus tannerie, timmerhoud : bois de charpente, timmerman : charpentier,
toÃ®nare : pÃ©ager, tonne : tonneau, tonnekin : tonnelet, top : sommet, toubbe
: cuve, toubbekin : cuvette, trecken : tirer, utslaen : prÃ©lever un
pourcentage sur la vente du poisson, utslare : celui qui est chargÃ© de ce
prÃ©lÃ¨vement, vaÃ®ke : faucon, vert : canal, vers : frais, versouten : abÃ®mer,
vet : gras, vis : poisson, viscoigh : marchand de poisson, viscoighhighe :
marchande de poisson, voghel : oiseau, vort : guÃ©, vries : frison, water :
eau, weder : temps, wenden, virer de bord, werf : chantier, werken :
travailler, west : ouest, wint : vent, winter : hiver, witinc : merlan,
zalont : phoque, zenden : sabler, ze : mer, zehont : phoque, zeil : voile,
zeilen : naviguer, zeilmakere fabricant de voiles, zejwand : agrÃ¨s, zout
sel, zoutre saunier, zut : sud.
(Tous ces mots sont extraits de textes Ã©crits Ã  Calais et dans la rÃ©gion de
Marquise Ã  la fin du XIIIe siÃ¨cle.)

B) Lexique flamand pour le boulenois d'aujourd'hui.
Affaler : descendre (afvallen), alouan mouffle de matelot (half-want), alle
: anguille salÃ©e (aal): ardant tadorne (ardeend), bading : corde qui relie
les flottes au cÃ¢ble bordant les filets, probablement " binding " (binden
attacher), bauke poutre (balk), bauwe : solive d'un flanc Ã  l'autre du
bateau (bouw charpente), bÃ©lande chaland (belanden aborder), binder attacher
(binden), blaquer : fumer la pipe (blaken : brÃ»ler), bopraye mÃ¢t du foc
(boegspriet), bord (boord), bourcet grande voile (boegzeil), bracque :
Ã©cueil (braak), buquer : frapper (buken), buise tuyau de cheminÃ©e (buis),
captennes : filets dÃ©chirÃ©s (kappen couper), dog : dock (dok), dragueur :
ancien bateau de pÃªche (drager), draige : filet de pÃªche (dregge), drife :
dÃ©rive (drijven), dringuer : heurter (dringen), dunne : dune (duin), dwÃ¨le :
serpilliÃ¨re (dweil), dwÃ©ler : laver avec une serpilliÃ¨re (dweilen), Ã©be :
marÃ©e descendante (eb), Ã©cope (schop : pelle), Ã©craper : gratter
(schrappen), Ã©core : comptage du poisson (scoren), Ã©corage, Ã©corer (scren),
Ã©coreur (scorere), Ã©lingue : lingue (leng), Ã©linguer : jeter (slingeren),
Ã©nar : corde (snaar), Ã©nette : cane (eend), Ã©plinguer : Ã©clabousser
(springen), escope : sorte de pelle servant Ã  ramasser le hareng (schop :
pelle), Ã©tombir : engourdir (stompen), Ã©toquer : s'Ã©trangler (stokken),
Ã©tron : dÃ©jection d'oiseau (stront merde), funke : fumÃ©e (funke Ã©tincelle),
flaquer couper et mettre Ã  plat une morue (vlakken aplatir), flauwe : faible
(flauwe), flobard ou flobart (vlotbaar), flot : marÃ©e montante (vloed), foc
voile d'avant (fok), foyus : fÃªte de dÃ©part Ã  la course (foyehuys), fraice :
frais (fris), frÃ©gard terrain public prÃ¨s du port (vrijgaert), garnade
crevette (garnaet), gatte : passe (gat), gloriette tonnelle (gloriette),
gringue : grimace (grijns), habe : port (have), huaise : corde de manne
(wisse), incaquer : ranger des poissons dans une caisse (kaken), cabillaud :
morue (kabeljauw), kake : tonneau de hareng (kaak), kakestÃªte : mÃ¢choire de
morue (kakestik), karer : Ã©viscÃ©rer (kaken), kakeur : homme qui Ã©viscÃ¨re,
aiglefin (schelvis), kaye : quai (kaai), kinntous : coqueluche (kinkhoest),
kile : quille de bateau (kiel), bf : cÃ´tÃ© du navire frappÃ© par le vent
(bef), mande : panier (mand), mauwe : gabarit (mal), minder : baisser le
filet (minderen), minke : halle de la criÃ©e (minke), moke : tasse Ã  boire
(mok : aiguiÃ¨re), nauwe : mauvais (nauw : offensant), oman : maman (orna :
grand-maman), pÃ¨ke : saumure (pekel), pÃ¨ksale : pÃªche au maquereau avec
salaison Ã  bord (peleken : saler), pinte : mesure de capacitÃ© de moules
(pint), platenne : parler beaucoup (praten), pluquer : chipoter (pulkeren),
pote grand panier Ã  poisson (bote), povÃ¨re : pauvre (pover), ra : endroit oÃ¹
dorment les matelots (ra vergue), rabin : noeud qui ferme le cul du chalut
(raband), ralingue : cordage (raleng), reupe : rot (rup), rime : gelÃ©e
blanche (rijm), faire sin rinkinkin : se rebiffer (rinkinken : faire du
bruit), rÃ´le liste des noms d'un Ã©quipage (rol : registre), rouf : abri sous
le pont d'un bateau (roef), sore roux, jaunÃ¢tre (soor : jaune brun>, soret :
hareng fumÃ© (zoor : dessÃ©chÃ©), tercq : goudron (teer), trale : chalut (treil
: cordages), traler : chaluter (treilen : virer), waze : vase de mer (wase),
wassingue : serpilliÃ¨re (wassen : laver, ou lakenwaschinge, zÃ¨pe : savon
mou, savon noir (zeep :savon)...
--- end quote

Flemish is more a symbol of identity than a spoken language, I think.

Regards,

Roger

----------

From: denis dujardin <dujardin at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Language survival" 2004.04.01 (02) [E]

Ron,

I also visit South-Flanders as it is sometimes called, quite regularly.
One can definitely hear people from about 50years and older speak amongst
each
other in Vlemsch as they call it.
But they are allways a bit reserved speaking it to people from (so called)
abroad.
There are some features of which I think they are constant. These features I
suppose are typical for comparible situations, where a language is dying
out.
The more distant a village lies from a town the more chance you'll have of
hearing it. Isolation of course, guarantees a certain degree of survival.
Also, the more close you come to the Belgian border, I suppose the more
often
it is heard. Frederic living in Boeschepe, IS on that border next to the
town
of (Belgian) Poperinge where the flemish dialect is very similar to that of
Boeschepe..
As a matter of fact, there are surely people who speak flemish in the
following
villages: Kaaster (Caestre), Herzele, Rekspoede, Gijvelde, Ekelsbeke ,Sint
Jans
Kappel, Berthen, Millam, Wulverdinge, Westkappel, Sint-Winoksbergen
(Bergues),
Sint Marie Kappel, Wormhout, Bollezele, Pitgam, Buisscheure (perhaps one of
the
most 'western' villages with streetnames in Flemish), Hondschote, Soks,
Winnezele, Volkerinkhove, Ledringem (The mayor writing his wishes for his
Bulletin Municipal in 1999 in Flemish!), Steenvoorde, Zermezele, Rubroek,
Terdegem, Vleteren (Fletre), Houtkerke, Arneke, Eringem,
Godewaarsvelde,Oostkappel, Lederzele, Belle, Merkegem, Bissezele, Kwaadieper
(Quaedypre),Wylder, Broksele, Hondegem, Bavinkhove, Zegerskappel.
There are certainly others, but I ignore if there still are in Ebblinghem,
Steenbeke, Linde or Morbeke. I know there were several about 25 years ago.

regards,
Denis Dujardin
Kortrijk
Westflanders

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language survival

Thanks for your interesting information (above), Roger and Denis.

Roger, you wrote:

> I think (unfortunately) your previous message may be closer to the
reality.

And Denis, you wrote:

> But they are allways a bit reserved speaking it to people from (so called)
> abroad.

I am pointing this out with regard to what I said earlier, namely that
speakers of minority languages (and I include "regional" languages in this)
often do not reveal themselves, are even less likely to do so in front of
"foreigners."  Whatever the reason for this may be (I assume fear of coming
across as secessionist/disloyal in a climate unfavorable to national
diversity), we discussed that phenomenon several days ago.

My point is that perhaps we may be dealing with a combination of factors.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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