LL-L "Idiomatica" 2004.08.05 (07) [E, A]

Thu Aug 5 19:28:03 UTC 2004

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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Onderwerp: "Idiomatica"
Van: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>

> From: John Baskind <jbaskind at mac.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Beste, Ron en Mark:
>
> Dankie virrie oophartige groete!
>
> On Jul 19, 2004, at 10:23 PM, Lowlands-L wrote:
>
>> In North Saxon dialects of Lowlands Saxon (Low German) we have _naars_
>> (<Naars>, <Noors>, <Nors> etc.) and _maars_ (<Maars>, <Moors>, <Mors>
>> etc.)
>> 'arse' (American 'ass', as in 'backside'), based on _aars_, which is
>> hardly
>> ever used now.  Perhaps the _maars_ variant comes from _an dem aars_ >
>> _an
>> 'em aars_ > _am aars_ 'on the ...', perhaps from the "colorful"
>> invitation
>> _Lek/Lik my am aars!_ (<Leck/Lick mi am Aars!>, nowadays _... an'n
>> ..._,
>> dative forms having disappeared).  It's an invitation in reverse, so
>> to
>> speak.  I guess I can spare you the translation.
>>
>> How's this for "boers," John?
>>
>> Groete,
>> Reinhard/Ron
>
> Ja-nee!  Dis maar lekker boers!
>
> (This is off-topic, being a semantic rather than an etymological query,
> but I beg indulgence:)
>
> I have chewed over this quintessentially Afrikaans expression (ja-nee)
> for years, but have always been frustrated in my quest for information
> on it's origins. I hope that someone here might be able to shed some
> light.
>
> Ja-nee is difficult to translate accurately, as it carries a wide range
> of meaning, depending on the inflection and which of the two words is
> emphasized. In the case above it provides  delighted
> acceptance/agreement with a salient point; but it can also carry the
> meaning of a considered acceptance of present realities, as in the case
> below,  a wonderful series of advertisements from South Africa's
> erstwhile governing Party which appeared in the Afrikaans Press during
> the run-up to the epochal 1994 elections:
>
> Ad 1, Full Page:
>
> Ja
>
> Ad 2, Full Page:
>
> Nee
>
> Ad 3, full page
>
> Ja-Nee
>
> Ad 4, full page
>
> Ag, Ja.
>
> Which begs the question of whether Afrikaans has (I"m not a linguist, I
> just love language) been influenced by the tonal African languages it
> has grown up with to develop, _beyond_ its European cousins.
> those of  an entire substrate of tonal inflections
>
> Groete, en nogmaals dank,
> John
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
> Subject: Idiomatica
>
> John, Lowlanders,
>
> In Northern Germany this _ja-nee_ (literally "yes-no") is also very
> popular,
> though it's popularity seems to be dwindling with the acceleration of
> Germanization.  (People there don't seem to be as aware of this as I
> am,
> because there are several years between my visits form overseas.)
>
> I am pretty sure that this _ja-nee_ originated from Lowlands Saxon (Low
> German), the earlier language of the land.  In this language I
> pronounce it
> something like [dZQ:'nE.I] (approximately "jåh-ney" in English
> spelling, the
> the "åh" as in "posh" Southern England English "father" or long Swedish
> "a").  In "broadest" Missingsch (i.e., German on LS substrate) it's
> pronounced the same, in "tamed" Missings or "broad" Northern German
> [jQ:'ne:] ("yåh-neh"), and in more "sophisticated" Hamburg German
> [ja:'ne:].
> I *have* heard the German(ized?) version _ja-nein_, but I am not sure
> if it
> has the same semantic range.
>
> As you said, this can convey all sorts of things, from being a filler
> to
> mild disagreement, may even express surprise.  It seems semantically
> really
> complex to me.  Much depends on context and intonation.  I could see
> someone
> writing a voluminous dissertation about it.
>
> I wonder if this is a general Continental Lowlands expression, if it
> is a
> Saxonism in Afrikaans, or if it sprang up independently in the two
> languages.  I suppose what we need to find out is if our friends in the
> Netherlands and Belgium are familiar with it too.  Might our British
> friends
> know of a thing like this in English and/or Scots (*_aye-na_?) dialects
> even?
>
> Thanks for bringing this up, John.
>
> En, ja-nee, ek stem met Mark overeen: dis baie lekker om jy op hierdie
> lys
> te hê!  Ons het meer Afrikaanse stemme nodig.
>
> Groete,
> Reinhard/Ron

Hi Ron en John,

Dutch:
Dit stemt overeen met wat nog heel levendig is in de westhoek van
West-Vlaanderen.
Om de halve zin gebruiken de mensen daar het stopwoord "enee".
't Is warm were enee
'k et gezeid enee
ja enee ...
Je kan dat best vertalen met "nietwaar" .

English:
This matches with what people still use very frequently in Western
Flemish:
You can translate it as "isn't it"
  It's warm weather enee
  I have said it enee
  Yes, enee

How can you tell if a dog is from Poperinge? When he barks, he says :
"Woef enee"!

Groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

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