LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.12 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 12.AUG.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.11 (08) [E]

Henno wrote:
> In Dutch and English one has "adder" (for the snake), while German has
> "natter" and
> West Frisian "njirre" (< *ne:dere), which are related to Latin natrix
(water
> snake) etc.

Big difference, though!! The "Natter" (Ringelnatter, Würfelnatter") is a
harmless (unless you're a frog), non-venomous grass snake. The adder, on the
other hand (German "Otter" or "Kreuzotter") is the only venomous snake in
Northern Europe.

Gabriele Kahn

----------

From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.11 (05) [E/German]


  From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
  Subject: Etymology
  Folks,

  Franz points out that there is a hypothesis that Low Franconian (and
  Frisian) _aak_ ‘barge’ (specifically a river barge used to transport heavy
  loads) was created by reanalyzing the initial /n/ in earlier _naak_ as
  belonging to the preceding article (much like North Saxon _Mors_ < _Maars_
<
  _...m Aars_, or _Naars_ < _...n Aars_ ‘arse’, ‘ass’), and Franz invites
our
  input.

  I responded by saying that this seems plausible or possible, considering
  words for ‘barge’ such as German _Nachen_, Old English _naca_ and Old
Norse
  _nokkvi_. The _Herkunftsduden_ speculates that these are related to “Old
  Indian” (Vedic Sanskrit?) ???? _naga-h_ ‘tree’ (thus the idea of a boat
made
  from a hollowed-out tree trunk, a dug-out canoe).

  Interestingly, the North Saxon dialects of Lowlands Saxon (Low German)
have
  _aken_ (<Aken> ['?Q:kN]) for 'barge'!

  Gruß/Regards,

Hi,
In the "De Bo" Western-Flemish idioticon there are two words mentioned:
-akke (heard in Brugge) = aak
-akkaard = een geule waar men vist (E: a watercourse/gully/channel, where
people fish)
(barge= een trekschuit)

groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

----------

From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Etymology

De Vries's "Etymologisch Woordenboek" tells the same story about "aak" as
Duden.

I suspect the reason Duden doesn't call the loss of initial "n" to give Du
"aak" (etc) "Volksetymologie" is that technically it isn't. The term
"Volksetymologie" is applied when a word is falsely related to and assumed
to derive from a word to which it has some resemblance but to which it
actually unrelated. The sort of thing is taking "Utopia" to mean a good
place by deriving it from "Eutopia" whereas it actually comes from
"Outopia", ie nowhere (cf Erewhon). The error is reinforced by the further
coinage "Dystopia" as its opposite. The process can happen with interesting
results in the case of place-names. I believe a lot of places in the Old
Testament to which legends were attached were in lands conquered by the
Israelites who then reinterpreted the original name as if it were a
meaningful word in whatever language they were themselves speaking at the
time (I could say Hebrew but I'd probably be wrong) and made up a story to
explain it.

Having written the above it occurs to me that "Break a leg!" is the example
I've been looking for. It is commonly said to be a theatrical term, based on
the idea that it is bad luck to wish good luck and therefore one wishes bad
luck in the hope that it won't transpire. It comes proximately from "Hals-
und Beinbruch" - "May you break your neck and your leg!" - which is used in
German (Yiddish?) in the same way. But that actually comes from a Hebrew
blessing which I can't reproduce which means "May you have happiness and
good fortune!". The final word in Hebrew is "baruch" which means "blessed"
(cf Benedict = Baruch Spinoza) but it was misinterpreted as German "Bruch",
and the phrase was reconstructed and "explained" on the basis of that
misapprehension. Volksetymologie!

I hope nobody's said this recently but there are well-known examples in
English of the re-analysis of words in "n-" so that for example "a nadder"
becomes "an adder" (snake), "a norange" becomes "an orange" and "a napron"
becomes "an apron". I haven't tried to reproduce the actual older spellings.

It is quite normal in Scotland to pronounce these combinations as if they
had the original spellings, though not to reattach the "n" in other
situations. I have noticed recently an apparent tendency in England to
pronounce "another" as if it were written "an other", which is of course
where it started from.

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

----------


From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks for the explanation, John.

Here's an explanatory note about the German zoological names Gabriele gives
above (LS = Lowlands Saxon [Low German], North Saxon dialects):

> "Natter"
Colubrida
Engl. colubrid, Du. rattenslang, Dan. almindelig snog, Fr. couleuvre,
coronelle, Sp. culebra, Pol. węże właściwe, Ru. семействый уж
LS: adder (<Adder>)

> Ringelnatter
Natrix natrix
Engl. grass snake, ring(ed) snake, Du. ringslang, Dan. snog, Fr. couleuvre a
collier, Sp. culebra de collar, Pol. zaskroniec, Ru. обыкновенный уж
LS: snaak (<Snaak>)

> Würfelnatter
Natrix tessellata
Engl. dice snake, Du. dobbelsteenslang, Dan. rudesnog, Fr. couleuvre
tessellée, Sp. culebra dado, Pol. zaskroniec rybołów, Ru. водяной уж
LS: ?

> "Otter"
~ Viper
Viperida
Engl. (pit) viper, adder, Du. (echte) adder, Dan. hugorm, grubeorm, Fr.
vipère, Sp. víbora, Pol. żmije, żmijowate, Ru. гадюка
LS: adder (<Adder>)

> "Kreuzotter"
Vipera berus
Engl. common viper, northern adder, Du. (gewone) adder, Dan. hugorm, Fr.
vipère péliade, Sp. víbora común, Pol. żmija zygzakowata, Ru. обыкновенная
гадюка
LS: (krüyts-)adder (<Krüüzadder>)

As you can see, LS doesn't distinguish dangerous adders from harmless
colubrids as categories ... However, _snaak_ (like Danish _snog_, and Dutch
_slang_?) definitely labels non-venomous snakes.  I have a feeling that
_slang_ (<Slang>) can be used either generally or for non-venomous snakes
(as in Dutch?), perhaps originally for any snake that kills its prey by
means of constrictions (_slang_ being related to _slingen_).  _Snaak_ comes
from Middle Saxon _snake_, being obviously related to English _snake_ (< Old
English _snaca_) and Old Norse _snákr_.

This LS _snaak_ can be ambiguous in that it also denotes an insect:
'daddy-longlegs', 'crane fly' (German _Schnake_, _Tipulida_, Du.
_langpootmug_, Dan. _stankelben_, Fr, _tipule_, Sp. _tipula_, Pol.
_koziółkowate_, Ru. долгоножка).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================