LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.23 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.AUG.2004 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Peter Snepvangers <snepvangers at optushome.com.au>
Subject: Etymology


Hello Ron/Reinhard and Lowlanders,
I am intrigued with the English word for lake and the various spellings used
in languages. I wonder if the Limburgs / Dutch / Afrikaans / Frisian
etymology of the spelling as "meer" could be explained to me. It seem
strange to me because you can use the word to mean lake but you can also use
it to mean more and more (meer en meer), or no longer (niet meer).
The German and Danish words seem to be similar
See (German)
So (Danish)
The English and Scots words seem to be similar
Lacus (Latin)
Loch (Scots)
Lake (English)
How is the word written in Lowlands Saxon?
Cheers
Peter Snepvangers
snepvangers at optushome.com.au

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Peter!

>  How is the word written in Lowlands Saxon?

Hah!  That depends on which of the many (non-official) orthographic systems
you follow.

Here's the weird part:

German:
   der See [ze:] (masc.) 'the lake'
   die See [ze:] (fem.) 'the sea', 'the ocean'
   das Meer [me:r] (neut.) 'the sea', 'the ocean'

North Saxon, Lowlands Saxon (Low German), Germany:
   dey sey (<de See>) [zE.I] (fem.) 'the sea', 'the ocean'
   dat (grote) water ['vQ:t3`] (dat (grote) Water>) (neut.)
         ("the great water") 'the sea', 'the ocean'
   dey blanke Hans (<de blanke Hans>) (masc. "the white/shiny John")
         'the North Sea'
   dey Blankhans (<de Blankhans>) (masc. "the white/shiny John")
      'the North Sea'
   dat meyr (<dat Meer>) [mE.I3`] (neut.) 'the lake'

The LS data are what I consider "original" or older.  Under Germanization
this has become blurred:

North Saxon, Lowlands Saxon (Low German), Germany:
   dey (sulten(e)/solten(e)) sey (<de (sulten/solten) See>) [zE.I]
         (fem.) 'the ("salty") sea', 'the ocean'
   dey sey (<de See>) [zE.I] (masc.) 'the lake'
   dat meyr (<dat Meer>) [mE.I3`] (neut.) 'the lake'; 'the sea'

Much depends on the context and on the dialect.

_Meer_ in the sense of 'lake' rather than in the sense of 'sea' can also be
found in a few North German lake names, such as Steinhuder Meer.

By the way, German has _Lache_ ['la(:)x@] '(large) puddle', 'pool' (not to
be confused with _Lache_ ['lax@] which means 'way of laughing'!) may be
related to the "lake" group," most likely derived from Latin _lacus_
(although it has feminine gender), though some have alleged that it is
related to Old Norse _lœkkr_ (also masculine) 'slowly running water'.


Confusion between 'lake' and 'sea' is common among the world's languages,
especially where lakes are relatively large.  In (Mandarin) Chinese, 'sea'
is _hai3_ 海 and 'lake' is _hu2_ 湖, but some lakes have _hai3_ 海 in their
names, such as _Qinghai_ 青海 ("Blue Sea/Ocean"), the name of a lake and of a
province in farwestern China (also Tibetan _Tschō Ngompō_ (Mtsho Sngon Po)
and Mongolian _Hohenuur_ (Köke Nağur) with the same literal meaning for the
same lake and province, in English "Kokonoor").

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron


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