LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.08.24 (15) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 24.AUG.2004 (15) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Language Varieties


Dan Prohaska said:

"John, ta very much fort he below - it's great and just what I wanted!!!
I know what a bummer it can be to punch in all of that, but it's very
much appreciated. Thanks."

Tha's moor than welcome! Whenever I try to record any details of the
Lancashire dialect I am invariably struck by the many different variants. I
think it has something to do with the gradual levelling of features peculiar
to the dialect; thus you get an eighty year old speaking more _broad
Lankisher_ than a fifty year old and so on. In previous times too, there was
not very much travelling, and it wasn't unusual to see people that had never
moved more than a few miles radius of the places they were born. The
Industrial Revolution, and two World Wars put a stop to that, and education
and the power of the media have probably eroded the local dialects even
more.

Anyway, it wasn't really a problem writing those details (though I have some
difficulties in writing IPA at the moment, I can't access my character map
for some reason and need to reload Windows); so, if there are any other
points you would like me to try to remember, then just let me know.

Dan asked about the difference between _weer_ and _wurr_ (both meaning
'where?'):

"Do you think it might have something to do with stress? That 'wur'
might be a weak for and 'weer' a strong one?"

No, I think again that this was a generational thing. _weer_ was the
original form, and _wurr_ was a form brought in to sound like the elusive
'Standard English' (or orthographics-based pronunciation).

People in Lancashire (as late as the sixties) had little idea of how things
were pronounced in 'Standard English' (I get so nervous whenever I use the
term, knowing what a hornet's nest it can be!). I spent much of my time
abroad, as I have mentioned, and when I used to come back I was amazed that
even teachers were teaching their pupils to say _bə:wk_ rather than [buk]
for _book_ . Hypercorrection of h- was also common, since Lancashire dialect
never used the sound. It is quite difficult, incidentally to show the Vowel
in _book_ , as it used to be and still often is pronounced in Lancashire.

Dan also said, concerning the two poems by Samuel Laycock that he had
previously read:

"Actually I'm quite sure we've both got the same booklet, with the
annotations and all."

No, I don't think we do. I used to have an old anthology of Lancashire
poetry, published in the 18th century. I think that I sold it at some point
when I was moving house (or _flittin'_ as we say in Lancashire), but not
before jotting down some of the poems. The annotations are all mine! It
occurred to me that non-Northerners, and especially non-Englishmen might
have trouble making head or tail of them, so I added some glosses. I might
have added translations, but I didn't want to try Ron's patience too much!

John Duckworth
Preston, UK

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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language Varieties

Hi Mark and All

Mark you wrote:
"Am I alone in feeling that 'RP English' would be much
the better for
the
seat of British government having been in Newcastle or
Edinburgh?"

hmm - coming from London not too sure about that one
;) however I do feel that I kinda miss out on dialect
discussions, seeing as my dialect (North-East London /
Essex) - albeit the educated or courtly variety
thereof - was the one 'adopted' as standard English
therefore making the majority of my dialect words
standard English - and therefore a bit boring, as
everyone knows them anyway.

If the government had been in York, say, or Edinburgh
(I'm not sure that Newcastle would have stood a
realistic chance historically) then I'm sure that my
dialect would then be considered a lot more
interesting for this list, and therefore I'd have been
in favour of RP English having been based on a
Northern Variety of English purely so that I could
give more edifying input into this list :)

Gary

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