LL-L "Terminology" 2004.08.25 (02) [E/S]

Wed Aug 25 14:45:39 UTC 2004

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 25.AUG.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Kevin Caldwell <kcaldwell31 at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.24 (11) [E]

> From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.08.24 (02) [E/LS]
>
> Dear Gary Taylor
>
> Subject: Language Varieties
>
> > I've got a question regarding lexicon. I remember
> > reading somewhere (sorry can't remember where) that
> > there were two words (probably more) that were
> > extremely different depending on where you come from
> > in England. One of these was for the soft shoe that
> > children wear when doing indoor sports - I call it a
> > plimsoll
>
> The original Plimsoll was a philanthropist who introduced reforms into the
> loading practice on merchant ships. The 'plimsoll line' is a circle
> crossed
> with a horizontal line, painted on the hull of the ship, & demarcates the
> deepest level to which it may be loaded, to avoid sinking in heavy
weather.
> The sailors in appreciation of him named a more personal safety item in
> his
> honour, which prevented the sailor himself from 'going over' in heavy
> weather. It was the customary sailor's sailcloth & rope-soled shoes, with
> gutta percha painted underneath (good 'roadholding' on wet decks).
> Non-sailors also call them 'tennis shoes (which used to be played on
> wooden
> floors), espidrilles (incorrectly), takkies (in South Africa - for the
> 'takky rubber' painted underneath) & sneakers', among many other names.

I (American, age 41) would call them sneakers or tennis shoes as a general
term.  There are also specific kinds, like running shoes and basketball
shoes.

> > the other one was the word for when
> > children are playing games and they cross their
> > fingers to show exemption from the game for a short
> > time - I call it vainlites (I checked this with my
> > parents - my mum says the same as me, my dad calls it
> > vainites - my spelling for both).
>
> In S.Africa, it is 'fains I' (with crossed fingers) meaning, 'I declare my
> immunity in this game' (from being 'on' in a game of catch, for example).
> The opposite is 'bags I', meaning, 'I claim it!' (to anything being shared
> out) or 'I claim the position of honour in this game!' (to be 'on' in a
> game
> of catch, for example).
>
> Both English & Afrikaans kids use it, (or used to) & we were lead to
> understand it came from the British Public Schools.

I don't recall this particular practice (crossing the fingers to be exempt
from a game) from when I was growing up.  Whenever a game started up that
required someone to be "it," the general practice was either for everyone to
yell, "Not it!", with the last person to do so becoming "it," or to go
through a selection process of the "one potato, two potato" variety.  Games
like tag usually had a base where one could be temporarily safe from being
tagged.

The "bags I" call sounds somewhat similar to the concept of "dibs" in the
US - a claim to first choice.

It's always interesting to hear what different people's variations are on
the "Olly, olly in come free!" call in hide-and-seek.

Kevin Caldwell

----------

From: Thomas <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L "Terminology" 2004.08.24 (16) [E]

 On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 16:49:10 -070Sandy Fleming sandy at scotstext.org wrote
> In my Scottish school we called these "rubbers".
Aye same wi us in Embro tae.
> I've never heard of the idea of crossing fingers to get respite from a
game
> in progress, though.
Embro custom in street gemmes wiz fur sumb'dy tae stick thair twa thumbs up
and yell oot "Barleys !". Chaser or whaeivur hud to stoap till the thumbs
went doon.
Anither daft yin we had wiz jist afore we pairted efter skuil. Awbuddy tried
tae dae a "Last Touch" oan the rest last yin tae git away wi this wiz the
winner. Here again there wiz a Barleys kinda thing, fur gin ye pit yer hauns
in frunt o Ye fingers interlaced an yelled "Mah Gates is shut the rest
couldna touch Ye. We played this as weel efter we'd finished playin in the
street at night.
Suppose wi Game Boys an that aw thae street games are long since deid.
Cupple o' months back a saw the auld street in Embro whair we played. Ah
sweer it hud shrunk a loat since ah wiz a wee laddie. :-)

Regards
Tom
Tom Mc Rae PSOC
Brisbane Australia
"The masonnis suld mak housis stark and rude,
To keep the pepill frome the stormes strang,
And he that fals, the craft it gois all wrang."
>>From 15th century Scots Poem 'The Buke of the Chess'

----------

From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Terminology" 2004.08.24 (16) [E]

From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Language varieties" [E]

From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language Varieties

Hi all

I've got a question regarding lexicon. I remember
reading somewhere (sorry can't remember where) that
there were two words (probably more) that were
extremely different depending on where you come from
in England. One of these was for the soft shoe that
children wear when doing indoor sports - I call it a
plimsoll,
In my Scottish school we called these "rubbers".

I've never heard of the idea of crossing fingers to get respite from a game
in progress, though.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language Varieties

Again Hi all , and hi Mark

Mark you wrote:

"In S.Africa, it is 'fains I' (with crossed fingers)
meaning, 'I declare  my immunity in this game' (from being 'on' in a game of
catch, for example).
The opposite is 'bags I', meaning, 'I claim it!' (to anything being
shared out) or 'I claim the position of honour in this game!'
(to be 'on' in a game of catch, for example).

Both English & Afrikaans kids use it, (or used to) & we were lead to
understand it came from the British Public Schools."

For the 'bags I' version it comes out as something like 'begsy' from where
I'm from, but your two phrases sound a lot more like 'real' words than mine.
So is 'bags I / begsy' the same as 'I put it in the bag and thus it's mine'?
And also 'fains I' - etymology anyone?If fains I = fain it = fains

An exclamation expressing a request for a respite, used in games probably
from

fain adj glad, pleased, satisfied, contented from OE fægen
fain adv 1 happily, gladly
             2 preferably, rather

David

----------

From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Terminology

Just after WWII poorer kids in my part of the world (London/Essex) wore what
were called "baseball boots", a brown canvas ankle boot with a rubber sole.
Perhaps they were American war surplus.

We used to say "fainites" and cross our fingers. Posh kids probably said
"pax". In relation to that, "pace egg" comes from "Pasch" not "peace".

Mark's description of the origin of plimsolls/plimsoles was fascinating but
this seems to be one of those topics which have become the subject of
popular speculation and other views certainly exist. My mind boggles at the
picture of Victorians playing tennis in rope-soled shoes on wooden floors,
but maybe I just don't have enough imagination.

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================