LL-L "Traditions" 2004.08.26 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 26.AUG.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Thomas <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2004.08.26 (11) [E/S]

Can say that again.
I know of Armenian parents domiciled in Ghana who proudly told me how they
burned their 3 year old boy with a lighted cigarette to correct naughtiness
and make him MANLY.
The sadistic strap beatings used in Scottish schools up until the late
1950's also had a similar motive with the boys. Parents reckoned it was good
for us and there was even a special factory in Fife which only made suitable
tawses whose sole use was punishment.
Regards
Tom
Tom Mc Rae PSOC
Brisbane Australia
"The masonnis suld mak housis stark and rude,
To keep the pepill frome the stormes strang,
And he that fals, the craft it gois all wrang."
>>From 15th century Scots Poem 'The Buke of the Chess'

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2004.08.26 (09) [E]

Ron wrote:
"I know children can be and are cruel to each other, and I assume that this
tradition is at least a good excuse for them to act it out. But how can you
be so sure that my hunch can be dismissed just like that?"

I wasn't dismissing it. It just seemed strange to focus on Scottish
Presbyterianism, when the bumps are endemic to other areas where the Scots
and Presbyterians never made any inroads. I take your point that the
practice might have been transplanted to North America by dour Calvinists
from Scotland and the north of Ireland but I can't see how the tradition
could have become so firmly and vindictively entrenched in the school
children of Nottingham and Cornwall on the same basis.

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From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Traditions

Thanks for the complete response, Críostóir.  Simply "Not at all" just
didn't do the same for me.

Tom:

> The sadistic strap beatings used in Scottish schools up until the late
> 1950's also had a similar motive with the boys. Parents reckoned it was
good
> for us and there was even a special factory in Fife which only made
suitable
> tawses whose sole use was punishment.

Many American schools still use "paddling" as a form of punishment, legally
in quite a number of states.  Those special paddles must still be
manufactured somewhere (perhaps "outsourced" somehwere in Central America or
Asia?).  Corporal punishment was prohibited even when I was a first-year
pupil in Hamburg (which was a year or so ago), so you can imagine my
surprise ...

I don't want this to develop into a debate for and against corporal
punishment, in general or in child-rearing.  I'm sure there are other lists
for that.  However, I do not see why we can not discuss violence and ethical
controversies within Lowlands cultural traditions.

Echoes of customary corporal punishment can still be found in idiomatic
expressions.  For instance, one of the Lowlands Saxon (Low German)
equivalents of, say, American "You'll get into trouble with your parents" is
_Dyn öllern krygt dy by dey büks_ (<Dien Öllern kriegt di bi de Büx>),
literally translated, "Your parents will get you by the pants," which
alludes to spanking.  It can be used now even if no corporal punishment but
"talking-to" or "grounding" is expected.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2004.08.26 (09) [E]

Hi all,

I agree with Críostóir. I grew up in a very large Calvinistic home and my
familial
group extends to more than 200 people, and I've never seen or heard of this
kind of birthday tradition here in South Africa.

Regards,
Elsie Zinsser
 Ron wrote:
"I keep wondering if this now playful birthday beating, which may have
arrived in North America from Scotland, developed from the Protestant,
Puritan (Calvinist?) belief that a very strict upbringing, including regular
corporal punishment, was essential for making children grow into good,
"God-fearing" members of society."

Críostóir wrote:
Not at all. I think it just developed from the 'natural' vindictive violence
of children to one another, in the same way as bullying did.

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