LL-L "Etymology" 2004.12.08 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 08.DEC.2004 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: rudi <rudi at its.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2004.12.07 (02) [E]

From: Rudi Vári
Subject: Names

Peter Snepvangers wrote:

"Over here in the land of Oz we say we have "Selective" deafness."

While I was growing up, my parents referred to this phenomenon as "Oost
Indies doof".

Was this a general term in the dutch lexicon?

Regards
Rudi

----------

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2004.12.07 (02) [E]

> Peter Snepvangers wrote:
> I usually, when accuracy is important, refer to myself as "profoundly
> deafened", otherwise just "deaf". Other people can call me what they like,
I
> won't hear them  :>
> Over here in the land of Oz we say we have "Selective" deafness. This
means
> we "Only hear what we want to hear". A good example is when my lovely wife
> asks me loudly to help wash the car and funnily enough I do not hear.
Yet!!
> I can hear her whispering to her sister  from 20 metres away they are
going
> to the shops for a fashion spree. Funny thing that!

>>>>> In Dutch we call that "Oost-Indisch doof", i.e. East-Indian deaf.
Oost-Indië (East-India), Nederlandsch Indië (Dutch India) or simply Indië
are
the 'colonial' names for what is now Indonesia.
What this selective auditive reception has to do with Indonesia? Probably
the local population pretended not to hear some offends or commends of
the Dutch rulers, when they didn't like it. Or it may have to do with
different
cultural concepts between Asian and European politeness, or so... Ingmar

> Ron wrote:
> But what about "Frank"?  Some believe the Franks were name after their
main
> weapon also: what in Old English is _franca_: a javelin.  It is
interesting
> that "Frank" is the basis of words for "Westerner," "European,"
"Christian"
> through large stretches of Eurasia, all the way into Western China; e.g.,
> Turkish __, Arabic فرنج  _firinji_ (pl.  رنجة _firinja_), Farsi فرنگى
> _farangî_, Kurdish _ferhengî_ ......  This goes to show the "fame" Charly
(Charlemagne)
> and his Frankish-dominated hordes used to have.

>>>>> Ah, I always thought it came into Arabic from the Crusader times, from
the names
France and French, that is how these were pronounced by the many 'Germanic'
participants.
*Ingmar

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Ingmar (above):

> >>>>> In Dutch we call that "Oost-Indisch doof", i.e. East-Indian deaf.
> Oost-Indië (East-India), Nederlandsch Indië (Dutch India) or simply Indië
> are
> the 'colonial' names for what is now Indonesia.
> What this selective auditive reception has to do with Indonesia? Probably
> the local population pretended not to hear some offends or commends of
> the Dutch rulers, when they didn't like it. Or it may have to do with
> different
> cultural concepts between Asian and European politeness, or so... Ingmar

Ingmar, I have a hunch you are on the right track there.

Like practically all Southeast Asians, Indonesians (and I'm painting with
the largest brush here) are brought up to be very gently polite and
considerate or at least to pretend to be so (so polite indeed that, in my
experience, some would people rather say "yes" when "no" would be
appropriate, which caused me quite a bit confusion until I caught on to
this).  It is extremely rare that you hear Indonesians raise their voices,
and if they do, it would probably sound like normal speaking to Westerners
and Chinese, for example.  The normal, habitually "loud" voices of these
non-Indonesians seem very rude and aggressive to Indonesian ears, the
equivalent of constantly yelling.  On the other hand, what within purely
Indonesian perception may seem less than polite may still be perceived as
quite polite to Westerners who are not familiar with Indonesian levels of
interaction -- hence the Western stereotype of the ever gentle, polite and
perpetually smiling "Inders," Thais, etc.  It took me quite a long time to
figure out that one of my landladies in Java was really pretty bossy and
abrupt with her staff.  In the beginning she had seemed like the sweetest,
gentle thing to me.

Now imagine a colonial _baas_ hollering (within a Western context) at the
"native" _jongens_ and _meisjes_ ...  How that must have seemed to them!  As
an areal feature of Eastern Asia -- probably of most of the world -- people
cannot deal with that level of perceptive rudeness, and the only way they
can react to such to them extremely unpleasant, scary and embarrassing
situations is to "switch off," almost as though they've shut the door of
perception.  At the same time, I can well imagine that, at least toward the
end of colonial rule, many Indonesians had begun to revolt, and this may
well have been in the form of conveniently pretending not to hear or
understand.  I think it's easy to imagine how Netherlanders made this into a
stereotype, into some national "character trait."

There are all types of idiomatic expressions that are bandied about in many
languages, expressions based on misperception and stereotyping of other
people.  In Lowlands Saxon (Low German) there are a few of those.  I try to
avoid using them, even though they seem inoccuous to most people.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================