LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.12.10 (08) [E/F/LS]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 10.DEC.2004 (08) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.12.09 (01) [E/F/LS]

> Leeve Nederland-Friesen,
>
> Ik kun mi eegentli ni voerstellen dat een vun de Nordfrieschen
> dialekte een
> "keel-r" haett, de Nordfrieschen dialekte de ik hoert heff harrn all
> een
> "tong-r" so as oeverall in Sleswig-Holsteen un ok in Soenderjylland.

Dochs wit ik dat it Fering (fan it Eilân Föhr) in tonge-r het. Benammen
yn it kearngebiet yn it westen
is dy dúdlik te hearren.

Mei freonlike groetnis,

Henno Brandsma

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From: marco [evenhuiscommunicatie] <marco at evenhuiscommunicatie.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.12.10 (01) [A/E]

Elsie:

> Yevgeny Ustinovich, apparently the double negative was quite common in
> Zeeus, and as I
> understand, still exists in some Netherlandic dialect forms.

Mark Dreyer:

>     The subject has been raised before in L-Lowlands, and it is said that
> the closing 'nie' in negative sentences does occasionally appear in some
> dialects such as Zeelandic. Reinhard Hahn will be more help there. But in
> Afrikaans it has been established since the late 1600s. Some assert it was
> learned from the French Hugenots, but it's unlikely. It does not conform
to
> the French ne - pas or  - rian.

I don't really know a lot about the Zeelandic dialects as they were spoken
in the 1600s or earlier, but I do know that to this day double negative
forms are indeed quite frequent in Zeelandic. Not in Afrikaans way
(nie...nie), but in the same way as the closely related West-Flemish
dialects (nie...en) and like Mark pointed out with a closing 'nie' in
negative sentences. The 'nie/en' construction is dying out now, but used to
be used very commonly throughout Zeeland. A few examples (Z= Zeelandic (isle
of Walcheren), D=Dutch, E=English):

Z: 'k è 't nie en gedae (nie...en)
D: ik heb het niet gedaan
E: I haven't done it

Z: ik è d'r glad niks nie van gezien ook nie (niks...nie)
D: ik heb er niets van gezien
E: I haven't seen anything of it

I hope this is of some help. Regards,

Marco Evenhuis

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