LL-L "Syntax" 2004.01.06 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 06.FEB.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: M.Verhagen <M.Verhagen at let.kun.nl>
Subject: Diachrone syntax


Dear Lowlands-L members,

I am studying the introduction of the reflexive form "zich" in Middle Dutch.
At that time one could say:

(1) Hij wast hem.
     He washes him.

Meaning either: He washes himself or He washes somone else.

Later on, the lexeme 'zich' came into the Dutch/Lower Saxonian dialects and
disambiguated the sentence above:

(2) Hij wast hem.
     He washes him.

(3) Hij wast zichzelf.
    He washes himself.

Nowadays, however, some dialects in the Netherlands still have 'older'
forms, like HEMZELF, or just HEM. I was wondering, not just for Dutch, but
for the whole variety of Lowlands Languages, which reflexive/reciprocal
forms do occur nowadays and what would be even more interesting: what
reflexives/reciprocals did occur in earlier times??

Many thanks in advance,

Michel Verhagen

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Syntax

Michel,

It's very similar in the Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects of Germany and
also in German:

LS:

(2) Hey wascht em. (<He wascht em.>)
     He washes him.

(3) Hey wascht sik. (<He wascht sik.)
     He washes himself.

(<sik> is pronounced as though written <zik> in Dutch and <zick> in
English.)

German:


(2) Er wäscht ihn.
     He washes him.

(3) Er wäscht sich.
     He washes himself.

Of course, _sik_ and _sich_ are only used for the 3rd person.  Other persons
have their own reflexive pronouns:

(2) Ik wasch em.
     Er wäscht ihn.
     I wash him.

(3) Ik wasch my. (<Ik wasch mi.>)
     Ich wasche mich.
     I wash myself.

(2) Du waschst em.
     Du wäschst ihn.
     Thou washest him.

(3) Du waschst dy. (<Du waschst di.>)
     Du wäschst dich.
     Thou washes thyself.

(2) Wy wascht (~ waschen) em. (<Wi wascht (~ waschen) em.>)
     Wir waschen ihn.
     We wash him.

(3) Wy wascht (~ waschen) u(n)s. (<Wi wascht (~ waschen) u(n)s.>)
     Wir waschen uns.
     We wash ourselves.

(2) Jy wascht (~ waschen) em. (<Ji wascht (~ waschen) em.>)
     Ihr wascht ihn.
     You wash him.

(3) Jy wascht (~ waschen) jou (~ ju). (<Ji wascht (~ waschen) jo (~ ju).>)
     Ihr wascht Euch.
     You wash yourselves.

(2) Sey wascht (~ waschen) em. (<Se wascht (~ waschen) em.>)
     Sie waschen ihn.
     They wash him.

(3) Sey wascht (~ waschen) sik. (<Se wascht (~ waschen) sik.>)
     Iht wascht Euch.
     They wash themselves.

Interestingly, Yiddish (a German derivative) has simplified this by applying
זיך zix_ (<x> = <ch>/<kh>) to all persons:

ix vaš zix.  (I wash myself.)
du wašt zix.  (Thou washest thyself.)
er/zi/es/men wašt zix.  (He/She/It/one washes him-/her-/it-/oneself.)
mir wašn zix.  (We wash ourself.)
ir wašt zix.  (You wash yourselves.)
zey wašn zix.  (They wash themselves.)

I feel that the following would not be reflexive:
zey wašn zey.  (They wash them.)
It would be the plural version of your _Hij wast hem_, I believe.

I am not sure at what stage _sik_/_sich_ came to be used in this way is LS
and German.

Best wishes with your study!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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