LL-L "History" 2004.01.10 (06) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 10.FEB.2004 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2004.02.09 (04) [E/French]

>> From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
>> Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.02.07 (06) [E]
>>
>>
>>> From: Tom Maguire <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
>>> Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.01.06 (06) [E]
>>>
>>>> About location of Germania in Flanders, I think the main source for
>>>> this
>>>> hypothesis is the belgian historian Albert Delahaye. I don't know
>>>> how
>>>> serious this hypothesis is and what to think about it. You can find
>>>> some
>>>> information in dutch at this site :
>>>> http://home-1.concepts.nl/~delahaye/visie.htm
>>>> Frd ric Baert
>>>
>>> Hello Frederic,
>>> Tacitus describes Germania in this way:
>>> "Germany is separated from the Galli, the Rhaeti
Rhaetia= North-West of France, as Plinius situates it in Naturalis
Historia IV, 98

>>> , and Pannonii, by the
>>> rivers Rhine
Rhenus...
>>>  and Danube; mountain ranges, or the fear which each feels
>>> for the other, divide it from the Sarmatae and Daci. Elsewhere ocean
>>> girds it, embracing broad peninsulas and islands of unexplored
>>> extent,
>>> where certain tribes and kingdoms are newly known to us, revealed by
>>> war. The Rhine
Rhenus
Germania begun north of Belgica.
>>>  springs from a precipitous and inaccessible height of the
>>> Rhaetian Alps, bends slightly westward, and mingles with the Northern
>>> Ocean. The Danube pours down from the gradual and gently rising
>>> slope of
>>> Mount Abnoba, and visits many nations, to force its way at last
>>> through
>>> six channels into the Pontus; a seventh mouth is lost in marshes."
>>> (Chapter 1 of "Germania".)
>>> Texas University website pictures this description in the following
>>> map:
>>> http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/ancient_germania.jpg
>>> Tacitus' description has Germania bordered by The Rhine, The Danube
>>> and
>>> the Atlantic Ocean. This is a bigger area of territory than Flanders.
>>
>>
>> I have some problems with touching historical theories, which are not
>> supported by historians. In literature one finds quite some books
>> about
>> Atlantis, the Holy Grail, the pedigree of the Frankish king
>> Clodovech/Clovis, linking him somehow with Maria Magdalena from the
>> Gospel
>> (I lost the reference).
>>
>> Academic historians generally do not invest much time in these
>> theories,
>> what generally contributes to the frustration of the discoverers.
>>> From time to time somebody throws a message about one of these
>>> issues in a
>> newsnet list, provoking long threads with replies and often ending
>> with
>> explosive flames.
>>
>> Quite often these theories are based on a single source, or a cluster
>> of
>> related sources. Common accepted knowledge on the contrary is often
>> not
>> repeatedly supported with references in publications (the source is
>> often
> a
>> combination of ancient texts with inscriptions on milestones, graves
>> etc.
>> and nobody wants to include these many thousands of references, which
>> historically have lead to our actual knowledge, each time over and
>> over in
>> every publication about ancient times.)
>>
>> This does not exclude the possibility of findings, which require
> adjustments
>> of our common knowledge.
Hello,
I think i have to reply here. It is in my letter that i mentioned first
the possibility of South-Flanders being a big part of the old Germania.
Delahay has indeed  come up with a brandnew theory which has not been
rejected but just ignored by most of the scientific world. And that is
to my knowledge the biggest mistake. I don't want to know that Delahay
is wrong, i want to kow why he is wrong.
The last few years there is  a change to notice: The elder historians
are mostly retired  i suppose, and we find some young scholars who like
to enter the dabate (which i follow with much interest). Most of what
Delahye wrote is in discussion but remains quiet strong in its general
statements.
What i can deduce are the following things:

-The Rine as described in Tacitus is not always the Rine (Tacitus talks
about the Rhenus,which can mean just "river" also. Look at the various
toponymes with "re")
-Julius Caesar just had the autorisation  to conquer the Celts. In his
ambition, he made a lot of German tribes Celtic in order to be
permitted to fight against them.
- South-Flanders in France has a very ancient history, older than the
more northern parts.
-All of the toponymedoublures you find in Western Europe have their
oldest origine in France.
- The pedigree of Chlodwig , Atlantis, the Holy Grail, ... have nothing
  to do with this discussion.

Groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

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