LL-L "Phonology" 2004.01.13 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 13.JAN.2004 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting Address: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.01.13 (03) [D/E]

Stan Levinson wrote:

> Een klein vraagje:  Is er iemand die me kan zeggen
> waarom men in Nederlands "Servië" zegt, met "v",
> terwijl in alle andere talen die ik een beetje ken,
> "Serbia" met "b" wordt gebruikt?

I think that one is easily answered. The name is "Servia" in Spanish
(Castellano), too. Spanish does not distinguish much between the consonants
"b" and "v", and they are pronounced almost identically, too.

So it must have been the Spanish influence in the Netherlands, I assume.

Gabriele Kahn

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Stan, Lowlanders,

I wrote:

> Today's name for the country you mentions is "Serbien" ['zE.3`biEn], as in
> German.  If a native version existed I would expect it to be *_Sarviën_ or
> *_Sarbiën_, perhaps *"Seerviën" or *"Seerviën".  One of the complicating
> factors is that there are two relevant types of dialects: _verdarven_ ~
> _verdarben_ 'to spoil', _starven_ ~ _starben_ 'to die', etc. (i.e.,
> [sonorant]v~b[sonorant]).

Let me further clarify:

(1) What in related language varieties is stressed /er/ tends to be stressed
/ar/ in most Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects.  Since most of them are
"non-rhotic" (i.e. "drop" syllable-final /r/) this is pronounced pretty much
like Australian English /ar/ [a:] as in "car" or "heart," e.g.,

LS - Dutch - Afrikaans - W.Fries. - English - German
kark [ka:k] - kerk - kerk - tsjerke - church - Kirche
barg [ba:x] - berg - berg - berch - (mountain) - Berg
dwarg [dva:x] - dwerg - dwerg - dwerch - dwarf - Zwerg
karn [ka:n] - kern - kern - ? - kernel - Kern

(2) Most dialects of LS have /v/ between two vowels or between a liquid and
a vowel.  Some of them, especially those of the Lower Elbe region, have /b/
instead.  This goes back to a sound that in Old Saxon was represented by
means of a barred "b", perhaps then a bilabial fricative as in Castilian
(Spanish) <b>/<v> [β]; e.g.,

över ~ öber < oƀar 'over', 'above', 'across'
geven ~ geben < geƀan 'to give'
starven ~ starben < sterƀan 'to die' (cf. Engl. "to starve")
halve ~ halbe < halƀa 'half (one(s))'

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================