LL-L "Semantics" 2004.01.27 (09) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 27.JAN.2004 (09) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Semantics"

> From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
> Subject: Semantics
>
> One of the major cultural and linguistic distinctions seems to be with
> regard to the beginning of a "day."  I guess that all Lowlands varieties
> traditionally consider morning (i.e., return of sunlight = dawn,
> LS _ucht_)
> to be the beginning of a day, more recently overlaid by the "scientific"
> notion that a day begins with midnight.  Some other cultures and
> languages,
> such as those of the Middle East, traditionally consider evening (i.e.,
> sunset) to be the beginning of a day, hence beginnings of holiday
> celebrations on what West Europeans and their descendants consider the
> previous evening.
>
> Is there any variation in the Lowlands region in this respect?

As well as "forenuin", we also have "forenicht" in Scots. This is the later
part of the evening after the eating is over and the entertainment (once
music and recitation, now more likely TV and boardgames) has started.

I think traditionally in Scotland the forenicht was considered to be the
beginning of the day (ie it was more like the Middle Eastern model - in fact
perhaps our day started even earlier than theirs!). It seems to me that this
was because people had to start preparing for the next day as the forenicht
wore on.

Although this is before my time, some of my older relatices can remember
this sort of thing. For example, in a mining family the men would go to bed
earlier in the forenicht and the women would stay up later to wash all the
men's clothes, every night. On a Saturday forenicht when there was no
working day to prepare for, the entertainment would stretch on into the
night, hence such poems as Burns's "The Cottar's Saturday Night".

I think this may also be why in Scotland Hogmanay celebrations start at
midnight and extend on into the night - this was originally what any Scot
would have considered natural for a day of celebration followed by a
holiday.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L "Semantics" 2004.01.27 (06) [E]

>>From Andrys Onsman
Subject: semantics

In Westerlauwers Frisian we have jûn or jûntiid for evening.  Twilight is
skimerjûn (schemeravond in Dutch). Usually we just say skimer. I think that
jûn
has more to do with time and skimer with actual conditions.

By the way, night is nacht, but nightly is as often jûns as nachts. Maybe
that
relates back to the rhythm of life depending on full udders - us mem rules!

groetnis
Andrys Onsman
Melbourne

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