LL-L "Help needed" 2004.01.29 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2004.01.29 (02) [E]

Thanks, Ron.  Sorry to be so dim ....

When we were talking before, I understood that the form 'duest' was not
standard German, but regional (?Lowlands Saxon).  Are these texts also
Rhenish?  Or Middle Saxon?

With best wishes,

Pat

--
Pat Reynolds
pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
   "It might look a bit messy now,
                    but just you come back in 500 years time"
   (T. Pratchett)

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Help needed

Hi again, Pat!

> Sorry to be so dim ....

*You*?! Never!

> When we were talking before, I understood that the form 'duest' was not
> standard German, but regional (?Lowlands Saxon).  Are these texts also
> Rhenish?  Or Middle Saxon?

As far as I can tell, it is in what at the time was the closest thing to
Written Standard German, something that was evolving then, based on what
Martin Luther championed with his Bible translation.  Apparently it was
evolving in the Roman-Catholic-dominated areas as well (and I assume that
most of the Rhenish region belonged to it).  However, standards had not been
finalized (hence "was evolving"), and local "color" tended to show through
in people's writing.

Having said all this, however, I can see nothing in the text that is
"glaringly" Rhenish.  _(Du) duest_ ('thou dost') is regular for the time
when what is not 2nd person singular _-st_ tended to still be _-est_.  Sure,
you would have also found _tuest_ (Modern _tust_), but in Central German
(i.e., a band of varieties wedged between Upper German and Saxon -- a sort
of transitional area or "buffer zone" running across what now is Germany --
voiced initial stops (like in Saxon) can often be found where Upper German
has voiceless initial stops.  The best I could do -- doing it "cold" --
would be to guess that _duest_ is Central German, which would be accurate,
though I don't think it's "glaringly" Rhenish.  _Duest_ is likely to have
occurred even as far east as what is now Poland.

Too much info?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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