LL-L "Name the language" 2004.07.07 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.07 (03) [E]

I've been asked for an authoritative (!) pronunciation guide for a
charity which is producing an audioversion of a work by J.R.R. Tolkien.
The elvish isn't a problem ... mooreeffoc is a bit challenging ... but I
have my own opinion.

However, one of the phrases I just don't remember from the work.  Can
anyone spot the language?  And provide a pronunciation?

twe tusend Johr

With best wishes,

Pat
--
Pat Reynolds
pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
   "It might look a bit messy now,
                    but just you come back in 500 years time"
   (T. Pratchett)

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Name the language

Hey, Pat!

> twe tusend Johr

If it were _twe dusend Johr_ it would be "perfect" Lowlands Saxon (Low
German), North Saxon dialect, with German-based spelling (for my _twey
dusend jaar_) meaning 'two thousand years'.

The pronunciation is [tvE.I du:znt 'j@:3`], if you rely on (non-rhotic)
English approximation: "tvey dooznt yawr" (or far-Northern dialects "tvey
dooznt jawr" -- "tvey dooznt yaw" or "tvey dooznt jaw" being close enough
for most of our Irish and North American friends), Dutch-based spelling
_twei doeznt (d)joar_.

Now, rather than believing that this is a Lowlands Saxon loan phrase in
Elvish ;-) I assume that Tolkien read the Lowlands Saxon story _Von dem
Machandelboom_ ("(About) the Juniper Tree") in the "German" original in the
Grimm Brothers' collection
(e.g., http://home.t-online.de/home/rudolf-steiner/machandl.htm) and,
probably influenced by his knowledge of German (_tausend_ 'thousand') or
being influenced by the spelling of English "thousand," he got the second
word a tad incorrect.

The story begins:
"Dat is nu all lang heer, wol twe dusend Johr ..."

My spelling:
"Dat is nu al lang her, wol twey dusend jaar ..."

In German translation:
"Das ist nun sehr lange her, wohl zweitausend Jahre ..."
(Should be "Das ist nun SCHON lange her, wohl zweitausend Jahre ...")

In English translation:
"Long, long ago, some two thousand years or so ..."
(Should be literally "This/It is now a long time ago already, probably two
thousand years ...")

I hope this helped.

Cheerio!
Reinhard/Ron

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