LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.09 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 09.JUL.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.01 (05) [E]

Dear Gavin Falconer

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.07 (06) [E]

> According to the DSL at http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/, wan- ceased to be
> productive in word formation except in Scots and Northern English after
the
> Middle English period, and I suspect that Scots simply followed suit after
a
> delay, with it falling together with un- in many cases.

> The number of Afrikaans and German words using the element could be to do
> with their lack of direct Latinate loans (as opposed to calques) and
> creation of abstract concepts using native elements, which brings me back
to
> my original point.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least if someone such
as
> Hately Waddell had coined a few words with wan-, but if one represents
Scots
> as the hybrid Latinised Germanic language that it is rather than reforms
it
> so that it's a purely Germanic one, there's no need for the like.

Thanks for that. Mind you, it is largely the Germanic elements of Scots that
so attract me!

Yrs,

Mark

Dear Mark Brooks

Subject: LL-L "Etymology"
Re: on end

> I had always thought it mean something along the lines of "end to end."
For
> example, "He reads mystery novels for hours on end."  I'm visualizing
> several hours lined up end "on end" (one after the other) with the meaning
> of "consecutively."

Yes; what tickles me is the figure of speech - why it was phrased that way.
For instance, a Korean who had got rather far in English without ever
speaking to an English-speaker shared this problem with me: As he understood
it, 'end' is a terminus - OK, how can it go with 'end-less'? Surely 'on end'
means it stops!

Eventually I got him around to our way of thinking, but he had the
expression of one 'over-persuaded that black is white'. I think I had just
betrayed one of his insights into the language.

Yrs Sincerely,
Mark Dreyer

> >>I've found in 'The Dream of the Rood'
> >>'þæt wæs géara iú   - ic þæt gýta geman
> >>þæt wæs áhéawan  holtes on ende'

> >>where 'on ende' is glossed as 'from the edge' .

> >Well, I don't altogether agree with that gloss

> My English is pretty basic but I've added a few previous lines and tried
> a rough translation
>
> ...........................   Hælendes tréow,
> ........................   Saviour's tree (cross)
> oþ þæt ic gehýrde   þæt hit hléoðrode     until I heard        that it
spoke
> ongan þá word sprecan   wudu  sélesta   began then words to speak:
> best of woods
> þæt wæs géara iú - ic þæt gýta geman     that was years ago - I still
> remember that-
> þæt ic wæs áhéawan holtes on ende'       that I was hewn down  from the
> forest's edge

> However don't take my word for it. I got the gloss for 'on ende' from
> Mitchell and Robinson's A Guide to Old English.

Apologies to you then, & to them, but I hold with my objection about the
present usage of 'hours on end' meaning an 'extended period'. I would still
look for a structural motivation in earlier language for the phrase 'on end'
to meen 'without end'.

Thanks for the interlinear translation.

Thanks also for the translation. I find great pleasure in doing that too.
Here is the same bit from mine, in Afrikaans.

                        '-----    Heiland se boom
           Toe hoor ek    hoe hyg dit;
    beginne spreek,    die saligste van houd,
  "Jare uitgedagte,    so onthou ek
is ek van die woud    se wand weggekap---" '

Yrs sincerely,
Mark

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================