LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.22 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Troy Sagrillo <meshwesh at bigfoot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.07.21 (05) [E]

on 22.07.2004 12.46 AM, John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Troy said: "but it does remain that "at(t)orcoppe" 'spider' does occur in
> Old English. "at(t)or" = poison, venom" (realised as "adder", in
> modern English); "coppe" = "head".

[snip]

> I think the connection Troy makes with _adder_ must be incorrect, since
this
> word originally had an initial n- : OLd English _nae:d(d)re_ ; Old Saxon
> _na:dra_ ( Cf. Middle Dutch _nadre_, Modern Dutch _adder_)

Yes, that is correct. My apologies for repeating a folk etymology on the
list.  Indeed it was the Dutch (and my faulty memory) that lead me to regard
it as being correct.

I noticed in Clark Hall's Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary that besides
atorcoppe, Old English also has atorloppe, loppe, and spithre ["th" = eth]
for "spider". Loppe is apparently related to loppestre, lopust (both used
for lobster and locust). Presumably these forms are related to "lope
[(broken) walk)]; leap", but I am not sure.

Standard Dutch has "spin" for "spider", but "spinnekop" is fairly widely
used I believe, at least in the north of Flanders (the Kempen). Is it used
elsewhere in Flanders and/or the Netherlands?

Cheers,

Troy

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From: R. F. Hahn <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Etymology

Middle Dutch has _coppe_ and _cobbe_, retained (as _koppe_, _kobbe_) in
various Flemish dialects.  (Also in Zeelandic?)

Westphalian Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects (also Twente ones?) have
_kobbe_.

There's the Proto-Germanic reconstruction *_aitra-_ "poisonous ulcer":  Old
English _átr_, _átor_ and _attor_ (> Middle English _ōter_), Old Saxon
_êtar_ (> _edder_ etc.), Old German _eitar_ and _eittar_ (> _Eiter_), Old
Norse _eitr_ (> _etter_, _edder_, etc.) and the like seem to have begun with
the sense of 'pus', 'corrupt matter from sores, etc.', and later variously
added on the values 'bitterness', 'gall' as well as 'poison', 'venom' of
snakes, spiders, etc.  Apparently, _atter_ is still a commonly used Scots
word denoting 'corrupt matter', 'pus'.

Slavonic for 'venom': Russian яд _jad_, Polish _jad_, Czech _jed_.  Related
or coincidental?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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