LL-L "False friends" 2004.06.12 (01) [D/E/LS/German]

Sat Jun 12 16:20:31 UTC 2004

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L O W L A N D S - L * 12.JUN.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Utz H. Woltmann <uwoltmann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "False friends" 2004.06.11 (05) [D/E]

>I know from Dutch another word which contains "slacht"; it is
>"slachtoffer". That seems to be more related to the LS "Slacht",
>isn´t it? I wonder what is the origin and connection between them.
>Does anybody know?
>
>Best regards
>Utz H. Woltmann
>
>----------
>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: False friends
>
>Utz,
>
>In the Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects of the Bremen and Oldenburg
>(Ollenborg) regions, _Slacht(e)_ [slaxt(@)] (f., pl. _Slachten_) means or
>used to mean 'bank reinforcement (wall)'.  It still occurs in street names
>in that region.
>
>The other _Slacht_ [slaxt(@)] (f., pl. _Slachten_), used in all dialects,
>means battle, is thus related to Dutch and Afrikaans _slag_ and to English
>"slaught" (formerly "slaucht" < Middle English _slaƺt_ ~ _slaht_ < Old
>English _sleaht_) and "slaughter."  Cf. Old English _slaga_ 'murderer',
thus
>"slayer" (< "slay" < _slé-a_, cf. LS _slagen_ ~ _slaan_ 'beat', 'slay',
>etc.).  The _-t(e)_ or _-d(e)_ is a deverbal noun suffix.  So it should
>really be spelled _slagd(e)_, _Schlagt_, etc.
>
>LS _Slachter_ (lit. "slayer" or "slaughterer") for 'butcher' survived in
>North German _Schlachter_, one of those words that shows up a North German
>speakers as opposed to Southerners who use words like _Metzger_ (lit.
>"slaughterer"), _Fleischer_ ("flesh-er," "meat-er") or _Fleischhauer_
>("flesh-/meat-chopper").
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

Moin Ron,

ik heff noch wat funnen in de webeditie vun dat "Leidsch Dagblad":

"Welke verouderde woorden leven er nog in het Leids? Een ervan is
slachte. 'Slachte', zegt u, 'dat is toch gewoon Nederlands?' Ja, wel als
je denkt aan vee en aan een slager. Maar dat slachten bedoel ik niet. Er
is een ander slachte dat voorkomt in de betekenis 'lijken op'. In het
Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal staat een mooi citaat uit de
dichtbundel 'Makamen en Ghazelen' van de Vlaming J.A. van Droogenbroeck
uit 1806: ,,Soms aard ik den wilden ramme, soms slacht ik den stillen
lamme! - Ik zeil bij allerlei winden.'' Vertaald luidt dat: nu eens heb
ik de aard van een woeste, wilde ram, dan weer lijk ik op een stil
onschuldig lammetje. Ik waai met alle winden mee.

In de Leidse taal kun je zeggen dan slacht je mij wat. Letterlijk
betekent dat 'dan lijk je wat op mij'. Maar je gebruikt het meestal
wanneer je met iets instemt wat een ander zegt. Je lijkt op mij, dus ben
ik het volledig met je eens. Slachten is verwant aan geslacht, je
voorvaderen en je nazaten. Daar lijk je meestal ook wat op."

Kumpelmenten
Utz H. Woltmann

----------

From: Utz H. Woltmann <uwoltmann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "False friends" 2004.06.11 (05) [D/E]

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

>Subject: False friends
>
>Utz,
>
>In the Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects of the Bremen and Oldenburg
>(Ollenborg) regions, _Slacht(e)_ [slaxt(@)] (f., pl. _Slachten_) means or
>used to mean 'bank reinforcement (wall)'.  It still occurs in street names
>in that region.
>
>The other _Slacht_ [slaxt(@)] (f., pl. _Slachten_), used in all dialects,
>means battle, is thus related to Dutch and Afrikaans _slag_ and to English
>"slaught" (formerly "slaucht" < Middle English _slaƺt_ ~ _slaht_ < Old
>English _sleaht_) and "slaughter."  Cf. Old English _slaga_ 'murderer',
thus
>"slayer" (< "slay" < _slé-a_, cf. LS _slagen_ ~ _slaan_ 'beat', 'slay',
>etc.).  The _-t(e)_ or _-d(e)_ is a deverbal noun suffix.  So it should
>really be spelled _slagd(e)_, _Schlagt_, etc.

Hello Ron,

you are right, I have found an explanation in www.bremen-tourism.de:

"Die Schlachte... Ihr Name leitet sich ab vom niederdeutschen Wort
‚slait’, was soviel wie schlagen bedeutet. Damit Schiffe anlegen konnten
und das Weserufer vor Eis und Sturmflut geschützt war, wurden Holzpfähle
in den Boden geschlagen."

"...Schlachte Promenade...Its name originates from Low German slait,
meaning to ‘slam’ and recalls the days when wooden stakes were used to
protect the quayside from icing and tidal storms."

Best regards
Utz H. Woltmann

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: False friends

Dank ook, Utz!

> Maar dat slachten bedoel ik niet. Er
> is een ander slachte dat voorkomt in de betekenis 'lijken op'.

Och, ja!  Dat hebbt wi in 't Neddersassische (Nedderdüütsche) ook:
_slachten_ ~ _slechten_, vun _Slag_ 'Aard', schull daarwegen beter <slagten>
or <slegten> schreven warrn.

Utz mentioned archaic Dutch _slachten_ in the sense of 'to resemble
(something)'.  I mentioned that we have that word in Lowlands Saxon (Low
German) as well: _slachten_ ~ _slechten_ 'to take after', 'to resemble',
from _Slag_ 'kind', 'sort', should thus be spelled _slagten_.

Examples:

Hey slagtt/slegtt an/up/op syn vadder.
He slacht/slecht an/up/op sien Vadder.
He takes after/resembles his father.

Den slag kraam weett he niks vun af.
Den Slag Kraam weet he nix vun af.
He doesn't know anything about that sort of stuff.

It's apparently also related to _geslegt_ (<Geslecht>) 'kin(ship)', 'seed',
'extraction', 'house', 'sex', 'gender'

In somewhat archaic German, _Schlag_ and _(ein)schlagen_ have similar
meanings.

It all seems to go back to the same source as that of "slay."

Danish and Norwegian have borrowed _slag_ in this sense.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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