LL-L "Morphology" 2004.06.22 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 22.JUN.2004 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Kenneth Rohde Christiansen <kenneth at gnu.org>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.06.22 (02) [E]

> I don't think I was doing that.  Or does it look as though I did?  I was
> merely noting that both languages have what etymologically are double
plural
> markers, just as I pointed out that Lowlands Saxon does too.  None of this
> should be seen as amounting to stating or implying that one was derived
from
> or influenced by the other.

It looked like you thought the Afrikaans form developed independently
from the Dutch one. Anyway, I was just checking.

> Apparently, as in ...
> Dutch:
>    ei 'egg' -> eieren 'eggs'

(Danish: et æg -> flere æg)

This seems to have happened to all -er plurals in Dutch.

> > Maybe these are all loanwords from Low Saxon [?] or -er became a foreign
> > plural form at some point
>
> I hazard the guess that the latter is the case.
>
> However, even then it is somewhat remarkable that the relic suffix
survived.
> Would it not be similar to English adding plural _-s_ to "children" and
> "brethren" (thus, child -> *childrens, brother -> *brethrens)?

I think it would.

Kenneth

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2004.06.22 (01) [E]

Ron wrote:
> As for double plural marking, so far I can come up with a few examples
from
> Dutch, Afrikaans and Lowlands Saxon (Low German), but I am sure that there
> are other varieties with this type of phenomenon as well.

Well, certainly, especially in American English:

"one visum" has become "one visa", and "several visas";
"one criterion" has become "one criteria", and "several criterias" (more
than 52,000 hits in Google!!)

There must be more of these, but I must admit that they hurt my sense of
grammar so much that I'd rather not think about them...

Gabriele Kahn

P.S. Ron, you'll probably find that posts from Europe will pick up again
once the European football championship is over...

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Gabriele:

> Well, certainly, especially in American English:
>
> "one visum" has become "one visa", and "several visas";
> "one criterion" has become "one criteria", and "several criterias"

Sure, and there are cases like interpreting Greek-derived "kudos" and
"gyros" as plural forms and deriving from them supposedly singular "kudo"
and "gyro" respectively.

However, this subject of more "exotic" specialized loan morphology (which at
least originally was outside the sphere of ordinary speakers, still is in
many spheres of society) is somewhat marginal to this topic.  What I meant
us to deal with is seemingly or actually irregular morphology of *native*
words.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

> P.S. Ron, you'll probably find that posts from Europe will pick up again
> once the European football championship is over...

Ah, thanks for reminding me!  I knew about it but didn't make the
connection.  Don't folks have a *real* life, like Lowlanding?  ;-)

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