LL-L "Etymology" 2004.03.08 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 08.MAR.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Fred van Brederode <f.vanbrederode at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.03.05 (02) [A/E/German]

From: ezinsser at tiscali.co.za <ezinsser at tiscali.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.03.04 (10) [E]

Hi all,

I'm intrigued that the Afrikaans form _bakvissie_ for an immature giggly
young girl seems
so similar to the Low Saxon _backwaschen_ (bagvaske).

Any connection?

Regards, Elsie Zinsser

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........_Bak_ (<back>) in the sense of 'back' (and also 'against the wind')
is
apparently specific to the dialects of Hamburg.  Hamburg dialects are known
for their large number of (older) English loanwords that entered the
language mostly by way of seafarer and merchant jargons.  So, my guess is
that German got it from Hamburg LS (most likely from the dialect of the
fishing community Finkwarder/Finkenwerder), and the German word entered
Afrikaans in the form of a calque (i.e., loan translation) with the
"obligatory" Afrikaans diminutive thrown in for good measure.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

Why not look for the obvious? Most words in Afrikaans have a direct link
with Dutch words. Simple chance would make me look there first.
Elsies Bakvissie is more than close to the Dutch word "Bakvis", meaning the
same thing. The diminutive of which becomes "bakvissie" in many colloquial
pronunciations.
This still does not exclude the possibility the words origin to be in
Northern Germany, but wouldn't it have travelled through Dutch to Afrikaans?

Groetjes,
Fred

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Fred.  Great point.  I wasn't aware of _bakvis_ in Dutch.  If it is
a Lowlands Saxon (Low German) loan (directly or via German _Backfisch_), a
direct English loan, or not a loan at all, yes, it would be one of the top
contenders.  However, (Standard) Dutch was only one of the main European
sources for Afrikaans, mostly through official, bureaucratic and
ecclesiastic use until Afrikaans officially gained autonomy and respect.  On
the spoken level, it was, at least in the early days, Zeelandic (Zeeuws) on
which it seems to have been primarily based.  Besides that there are of
course English (because of English rule and domination), French (brought in
by large Huguenot refugee groups) and German (due to large German-speaking
immigrant groups that came to be absorbed largely into the
Afrikaans-speaking population).  And, beginning with the early days of
European settlement in Southern Africa, among the "Dutch"- and
"German"-speaking populations there were undoubtedly many Lowlands Saxon
speakers, among which the ones from Germany (and its colonies) must have
found that their native "dialect" came in handy when dealing with the
"Dutch" of Southern Africa.

So, yes, _bakvissie_ may well have entered Afrikaans from Dutch, but not
necessarily so.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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