LL-L "Names" 2004.05.01 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Language varieties" [E]

> From: Thomas <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.04.30 (06) [E]
>
> on 1/5/04 9:30, Lowlands-L at lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET wrote:
>
> > Oops!  Thanks for pointing that out.  Needless to say that I had meant
to
> > spell it "Skotsch."
> To us Scots this of course is perfectly acceptable, Scotch on the other
hand
> comes only in bottles. We are SCOTTISH or SCOTS !

So do you think you've shouted it loudly enough to convince everybody, Tom?
:)

*Why* is "Scotch" acceptable for a few things (eg whisky and tomatoes) but
not for anything else?

Also why is "Scottish" acceptable, since just as "Scotch" is the English
form of "Scots", "Scottish" is the English form of "Scottis". But both
"Scottish" and "Scotch" are now used by Scots speakers, the latter only
becoming unpopular due to being "educated out" of people. But then again the
whole Scots language is being educated out of people so that's not a point
against the word.

I suppose it's part of the human condition that if you're taught something
young enough, no matter how idiotic, it's hard to shake it off for the rest
of your days.

"Scotch" is used by many Scots speakers in Scots, and Scots speeking
children are often taught the rules about "Scotch" when the teacher attempts
to "correct" their usage of the word, in spite of the fact that the children
are bringing the word from their Scots-speaking families.

I never say "Scotch" in Scots, not even for whisky or tomatoes (well, I do
say "butterscotch"), but I don't see anything wrong with using it for
anything when speaking English - it is, after all a well established usage
with a respectable etymology in English. You could also say that "Scottish"
is unacceptable because it's the English form of "Scottis".

My mother used to stick to the "school" rules, my father is more of a
"Scotch" man. Obviously I don't seem to have listened to either of them!

The only problem I see with the word is that whenever it's used a lot of
Scottish sheep start to bleat.

Here's some interesting translations:

English -          Scots
=======            =====
Scotch  -          Scots (sometimes "Scotch")
Scottish -         Scottis (but now usually "Scottish")
hopscotch -        pickies, peevers
butterscotch -     butterscotch
scot-free -        scart-free (literally, "scratch-free")

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Ed Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.04.30 (07) [E]

At 05:23 PM 04/30/04 -0700, Thomas wrote:
>To us Scots this of course is perfectly acceptable, Scotch on the other
hand
>comes only in bottles. We are SCOTTISH or SCOTS !

As was pointed out several years ago when this dispute came up, it appears
that the people in SCOTLAND changed the spelling of Scotch to Scots in, if
memory serves me right, the 19th century, while the original (or at least
acceptable alternate) spelling was preserved in the New World.  Now it
hardly seems fair that English speakers in the Old World should get so
uppity about all the New World spellings of other English words, then
become all self-righteous when an original spelling is preserved
here.  SCOTS are SCOTCH and the SCOTCH are SCOTS (humor OR humour!).  And
then to make up some fable etymology that distinguishes between the people
and the things named after the people like Butterscotch and Scotch whiskey,
after all the nasty expressions about Dutch courage and Welshing on bets
and the like common in the language, it's really too much.  Perhaps the
Dutch should come up with a new spelling, like DUTS, then get upset at all
their kinfolk in the New World for not buying into it.

Ed Alexander

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