LL-L "Idiomatica" 2004.05.25 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 25.MAY.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Folks,

I am wondering about the spread of a certain idiomatic phrase among the
Lowlands language varieties.  This involves the word "deal" (in the somewhat
archaic sense "portion") and its equivalents: "a great/good deal (of)"
having come to mean "much" or "many."

Lowlands Saxon (Low German) has exactly the same expression with the same
meaning:

'n groot deyl
(<'n groot Deel>)
"a large/great deal"

'n goud deyl
(<'n goot Deel>)
"a good deal"

In many contexts, these are exchangeable with _veel_ 'much', 'many', 'a lot
of'.

Examples:

Daar kanst 'n groot deyl turisten seyn.
(<Daar kannst 'n groot Deel Touristen sehn.>)
You can see a lot of/many tourists there.

Sey drinkt 'n goud deyl wyn.
(<Se drinkt 'n goot Deel Wien.>)
They drink a lot of wine.

However, there are many cases in which this may imply "large portion of,"
though it can be translated as "much," "a lot of," as well.

Examples:

Daar gayt 'n groot deyl turisten hin.
(<Daar geiht 'n groot Deel Touristen hin.>)
Many tourists go there.

This is just a step away from the following, involving use of _vun dey_ "of
the":

Daar gayt 'n groot deyl vun dey turisten hin.
(<Daar geiht 'n groot Deel vun de Touristen hin.>)
Many of the tourists go there.

And also:

Sey drinkt 'n goud deyl vun d'n wyn.
(<Se drinkt 'n goot Deel vun'n Wien.>)
They drink a lot of the wine. | They drink the better part of the wine.

I know that Dutch and Afrikaans use _deel_ in a number of phrases, but I am
not aware of exactly the equivalents of the above.  There are, however, the
related phrases:

D: voor een groot deel
A: vir 'n groot deel
lit. "for a great deal"

meaning 'to a large extent', which can be used in Lowlands Saxon as well
_vör 'n groot/goud deyl_ (<för 'n groot/goot Deel>), literally "for a
large/good deal=part."

So far I can find the said idiomatic phrase meaning "much," "many" or "a lot
of" (in a non-partitive sense) only in English and Lowlands Saxon (Low
German).  Does it occur in other varieties as well, or might this be a
Saxonism?  If it is a Saxonism, can it be found in Old English and Old Saxon
literature?

Thanks and regards,
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================