LL-L "Literature" 2004.11.14 (08) [E/LS]

Mon Nov 15 00:09:49 UTC 2004

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.11.14 (05) [E]

Ron wrote:
> Actually, it's believed that English "butt" as in "blunt end of a tool"
and,
> yes, "buttock"* is derived from Middle Low German, either from Dutch or
from
> Saxon, and people seem to think that there is a link between it and the
> (stumpy?) flat fish "butt," as also in "halibut" (< "holy butt,"
> _Hippoglossus vulgaris_, cf. D. _heilbot_, LS _heilbut_ < _heylige but_).

"Buttje" denoting the halibut is found in one of Grimm's lesser known fairy
tales (at least outside of Germany, that is). It was originally written in
Lower Saxon, like quite a few of those tales. Since the tale is too long to
quote here in its entirety, I have just added the beginning; for the rest of
the story, please see http://www.udoklinger.de/Grimm/Vom_Fischer2.htm. You
can compare this with the German version:
http://www.udoklinger.de/Grimm/Vom_Fischer1.htm and an English translation:
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/grimm019.html. I looked at several translations
found in the Internet, by the way, and none of the translators dared use the
actual words; they start the story claiming that the fisherman and his wife
lived in "a pigsty" or "a filthy shack", while the original version claims
that they lived "in a pisspot close by the sea". In the German version, it
has even become "a small fisherman's hut".

Gabriele Kahn

Von dem Fischer un syner Fru

Dar wöör maal eens en Fischer un syne Fru, de waanden tosamen in'n Pißputt,
dicht an der See, un de Fischer güng alle Dage hen un angeld: un he angeld
un angeld.
So seet he ook eens by de Angel und seeg jümmer in das blanke Water henin:
un he seet un seet.
Do güng de Angel to Grund, deep ünner, un as he se herup haald, so haald he
enen grooten Butt heruut. Do säd de Butt to em 'hör mal, Fischer, ik bidd
dy, laat my lewen, ik bün keen rechten Butt, ik bün'n verwünschten Prins.
Wat helpt dy dat, dat du my doot maakst? i würr dy doch nich recht smecken:
sett my wedder in dat Water un laat my swemmen.'
'Nu,' säd de Mann, 'du bruukst nich so veel Wöörd to maken, eenen Butt, de
spreken kann, hadd ik doch wol swemmen laten.' Mit des sett't he em wedder
in dat blanke Water, do güng de Butt to Grund und leet enen langen Strypen
Bloot achter sik. So stünn de Fischer up un güng nach syne Fru in'n Pißputt.
'Mann,' säd de Fru, 'hest du hüüt niks fungen?' 'Ne,' säd de Mann, 'ik füng
enen Butt, de säd, he wöör en verwünschten Prins, da hebb ik em wedder
swemmen laten.' 'Hest du dy denn niks wünschd?' söd de Fru. 'Ne,' säd de
Mann, 'wat schull ik my wünschen?' 'Ach,' säd de Fru, 'dat is doch äwel, hyr
man jümmer in'n Pißputt to waanen, dat stinkt un is so eeklig: du haddst uns
doch ene lüttje Hütt wünschen kunnt. Ga noch hen un roop em: segg em, wy
wählt 'ne lüttje Hütt hebben, he dait dat gewiß.' 'Ach,' säd de Mann, 'wat
schull ich door noch hengaan?' 'I,' säd de Fru, 'du haddst em doch fungen,
un hest em wedder swemmen laten, he dait dat gewiß. Ga glyk hen.' De Mann
wull noch nicht recht, wull awerst syn Fru ook nicht to weddern syn un güng
hen na der See.
As he door köhm, wöör de See ganß gröon un geel un goor nich mee so blank.
So güng he staan und säd
'Manntje, Manntje, Timpe Te,
Buttje, Buttje in der See,
myne Fru de Ilsebill
will nich so, as ik wol will.'
Do köhm de Butt answemmen un säd 'na, wat will se denn?' 'Ach,' säd de Mann,
'ik hebb di doch fungen hatt, nu säd myn Fru, ik hadd my doch wat wünschen
schullt. Se mag nich meer in'n Pißputt wanen, se wull geern 'ne Hütt.' 'Ga
man hen,' säd de Butt, 'se hett se all.'  .....

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Literature

Thanks, Gabriele.

There are quite a few errors (German interference) in the piece you copied
and pasted.

By the way, the dialect is quite archaic.

Our Andy Eagle once did a really nice Scots translation of this, directly,
not via German.  I sure would love to read that again sometime.

Here is a Dutch translation, in which they just "lived in a pot":
http://www.beleven.org/verhalen/data/verhaal.php?id=5019

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Below is the tale transliterated in the ANS system as it is at this
moment:

***

VON DEM VISCHER UN SYNER VRU

Daar woer maal eyns eyn vischer un syne vru, dey waanden tousamen in 'n
pissput, dicht an der sey, un dey vischer güng alle dage hen un angeld: un
hey angeld un angeld.

So seet hey ook eyns by dey angel und seeg' jümmer in dat blanke water
henin: un hey seet un seet.

Do güng dey angel tou grund, deyp ünner, un as hey sey herup haald, so haald
hey eynen groten but heruut. Do seed' dey but tou em: "Hoyr maal, vischer,
ik bid dy: laat my leven! Ik bün keyn rechten but. Ik bün 'n verwünschten
prinss. Wat helpt dy dat, dat du my dood maakst? Ik woyrd' dy doch nich
recht smekken. Set my wedder in dat water un laat my swemmen."

"Nu," seed' dey man, "du bruukst nich so veel woyrd' tou maken. Eynen but,
dey spreken kan, had ik doch wol swemmen laten." Mit des set't hey em wedder
in dat blanke water. Do güng dey but tou grund und leet eynen langen strypen
bloud achter sik. So stünd dey vischer up un güng na syne vru in d'n
pissput. "Man," seed' dey vru, "hest du huyt niks vungen?" "Ne," seed' dey
man, "ik vüng eynen but, dey seed', hey woyrd' eyn verwünschten prinss. Daar
heb ik em wedder swemmen laten." "Hest du dy den niks wünscht?' seed' dey
vru. "Ne," seed' dey man, "wat schul ik my wünschen?" "Ach," seed' dey vru,
"dat is doch evel hyr man jümmer in 'n pissput tou wanen. Dat stinkt un is
so eeklig. Du hadst uns doch eyne lütje hüt wünschen kund. Ga noch hen un
roup em! Seg em, wy weelt 'ne lütje hüt hebben. Hey dayt dat gewiss." "Ach,"
seed' dey man, "wat schul ich daar noch hen-gaan?" "Y," seed' dey vru, "du
hadst em doch vungen un hest em wedder swemmen laten! Hey dayt dat gewiss.
Ga glyk hen!" Dey man wul noch nicht recht, wul averst syn vru ook nicht tou
weddern syn un güng hen na der sey.

As hey daar koym, woyrd' dey sey ganss groyn un geel un gaar nich meer so
blank.

So güng hey staan und seed'
   "Mantje, mantje, timpe tey,
   Butje, butje in der sey,
   Myne vru, dey Ilsebil,
   Wil nich so, as ik wol wil."

Do koym dey but an-swemmen un seed': "Na, wat wil sey den?" "Ach," seed' dey
man, "ik heb dy doch vungen hat. Nu seed' myn vru, ik had my doch wat
wünschen schult. Sey mag nich meer in 'n pissput wanen. Sey wul geyrn 'ne
hüt." "Ga man hen," seed' dey but, "se het sey al."  .....

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