LL-L "Etymology" 2004.11.23 (04) [E/LS]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.NOV.2004 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Kenneth Rohde Christiansen <kenneth at gnu.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.11.21 (07) [E/LS]

Reinhard wrote:

> Den segt Jy in Twente wul "wicht" vör "kind"?
> In Oostvreysland beduydt dat "girl", in Duytsch "wight", "goblin".
>
> So I take it in Twente you say _wicht_ for "child"?
> In Eastern Friesland it means "girl", in German "wight", "goblin".

Wicht beteykent "girl" hyr in Grünnen, en blykber ok in Oost-Drinte -
dat he'k namelk ok op myn Skik cd hoerd.

Kenneth

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.11.21 (07) [E/LS]

>>>>> In Eastern and Northern Drenthe _wicht_ means "girl" too. I think in
Groningen as well.
In the South Western part of that province we say "magien" ["ma:Gi:~], a
dim. form of maagd = maiden.
Child = _kiend_ [kint]. Probably the same form in Salland (Western
Overijssel).
In the Achterhoek children are called _blagen_ ["bla:G at n]/[bla:g=N], and a
girl is _maeken_ [mE:k at n].
In Standard Dutch, _wicht_ is a pejorative way to say "girl", mostly a dumb,
unimportant or ugly one.

Ingmar

> From: R. F. Hahn :
>
> Henry ("Traditions") schreyv':
> > > Daet singt de wichter hyr in Almere ok.
> > Den segt Jy in Twente wul "wicht" vör "kind"?
> In Oostvreysland beduydt dat "girl", in Duytsch "wight", "goblin".
>
> So I take it in Twente you say _wicht_ for "child"?
> In Eastern Friesland it means "girl", in German "wight", "goblin".

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.11.21 (07) [E/LS]

Ron wrote:
>
> Henry ("Traditions") schreyv':
>
>> Daet singt de wichter hyr in Almere ok.
>
> Den segt Jy in Twente wul "wicht" vör "kind"?
> In Oostvreysland beduydt dat "girl", in Duytsch "wight", "goblin".
>
Jao, mear in Tweante is daet "child". Eyn "girl" is eyn "meaken" [mE:kN].

> Old English, Old Saxon, Old German _wiht_ 'thing', 'being',
>   'creature', 'demon'
 >
Mear wichter bint toch ok demonen? ;)

Wy noymt onse baby mangs ok wal op Hollands blèrwicht ;)

Henry

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

In North Saxon dialects, "girl" is usually _deyrn_ (<Deern>, <Diern>,
[dE.I3n] ~ [da.I3n] ~ [di:3n]).  In the northeast (Eastern Friesland,
Oldenburg, etc.) is _wicht_ (and boy is _vent_ <Fent>, I believe), and in
Eastern dialects (I think also in Eastphalian ones) it's _meken_ (<Mäken>
['mE:k=N] ~ ['me:k=N] < dim. of a cognate of English "maid").

In North Saxon and other dialects, I believe also in Westphalian, you can
say _blagen_ (<Blagen> [blQ:g=N]) for "children," but to me it sounds
derogatory (or at best jocular), as can _goeren_ (<Gören> , <Göörn>, sing.
_goer_), neutral being _kind_ ([k_hI.nt], pl. _kinder_ <Kinner> ['k_hIn6]).
In Mennonite LS (Plautdietsch) _meke(n)_ (<Mäakje>) or _mejall_ (<Mejal>
[me'jal] <- /mijál/; Plaut. /i/ -> [e], /e/ -> [a], /a/ -> [aU]) is used.  I
assume that the latter is related to Old-Prussian-derived _marjell_ of
Eastern Prussia, now Kaliningrad, Russia.

> Wy noymt onse baby mangs ok wal op Hollands blèrwicht ;)

So a baby is a "cry thing/goblin"?  ("To cry" with reference to babies is
_blarren_ [bla:n] in our dialects.)  I guess that isn't all that far off the
mark.

In North Saxon, a baby is a _lüt_ (_Lütt_ [lYt] "little (one)", pl.
_lütte(n)_ <Lütte(n)>), which can also be used to mean "child(ren)," in
Missingsch German and other Northern German dialects as well.  A pitiful
little child can be referred to as a _lütt worm_ ([lYt'vO.6m] "little
worm").  A more jocular word for baby or infant is _schyt-buydel_
(<Schietbüdel> ["Si(:)t%by(:)d=l], pl. __s).  I assume I have to add nothing
to this one except to say that _buydel_ is a 'bag', 'pouch'  or 'bundel' ...
Knowing this, you might be surprised hearing this one used even for adults,
such as grown-up children, spouses or lovers ...  _Och, nu kaam maal her un
geev my 'n soyten, myn lütten schytbüdel!_ ("Oh, come on over here and give
me a sweet one (= kiss), my little ...!"), something that in American slang
might be "Come on, give Daddy~Momma some sugar, baby!" (where "Daddy~Momma"
does not necessarily refer to a parent but can also refer to a lover).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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