LL-L "Phonology" 2004.11.24 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 24.NOV.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at worldonline.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.11.23 (14) [E]

> Ron wrote:

> In some dialects, the word _bed_ [bEt] is pluralized as _bedden_ ['bEd=n].
> Interestingly, "flapping" / "tapping" has come to apply to the plural form
> and then been treated as an /r/: _berren_ [bE.3n], and this has affected
the
> singular form in some: _ber_ [bE.3].

>>>>> In the non schwa deleting Low Saxon dialects of the Netherlands, we
find _berre_ ["bEr@] = bed.
If this is an old development, r in Lowlands Saxon _ber_ would not be
derived from the plural form
but be just natural ber < berre. I think that  _ber_  exist too in our area,
in dialects that do have schwa deletion
 Ingmar

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From: Kenneth Rohde Christiansen <kenneth at gnu.org>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.11.23 (14) [E]

Reinhard wrote:

>In some dialects, the word _bed_ [bEt] is pluralized as _bedden_ ['bEd=n].
>Interestingly, "flapping" / "tapping" has come to apply to the plural form
>and then been treated as an /r/: _berren_ [bE.3n], and this has affected
>the
>singular form in some: _ber_ [bE.3].  This is interesting in that _berren_
>[bE.3n] is phonetically not intervocalic, since the dialects are
>"non-rhotic" (_berren_ being pronounced much like "bairn" is in
>"non-rhotic"
>English).  I wonder if this is is a historical hangover (thus is
>phonemicized as /ber at n/) or is due to some productive rule sequence.

We also say ber here in Groningen and East Frisia and 'I am going to
bed' is called 'ik ga op berre'.

When you write 'or' in your dialect is that then because (de) has
disappeared like in brour (brouder), vaer (vader), kleren (klederen) ?
The reason I am asking is that I have seen some write orrer which would
probably sound like 'or' to many.

Kenneth

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

I wrote:

> Interesting developments:
> _wedder_ ['vEd6] 'again' has become _werrer_ ['vEr6] in some
> dialects.  In a few dialects, the Saxon shift /er/ > /ar/ (e.g., _berg_ >
> _barg_ 'mountain') then applied: _warrer_ ['var9].

In the dialects concerned (to which, incidentally, the Olland dialect of our
friend Clara Kramer-Freudenthal belongs), this also applies to the word for
"feather":

veder ["fe:d9] ~ ["fE:d9]
veer [fe:3] ~ [fE:3]
vedder ["fEd6]
veller ["fEl9]
verrer ["fEr9]
varrer ["far9]

The last is homophonous with (_vadder_ ["fad9] >) _varrer_ ["far9] 'father'.

Kenneth (above):

> When you write 'or' in your dialect is that then because (de) has
> disappeared like in brour (brouder), vaer (vader), kleren (klederen) ?
> The reason I am asking is that I have seen some write orrer which would
> probably sound like 'or' to many.

We don't say those words like that.  We say _brouder_, _vadder_ and
_kleyder_ respectively.  So I don't understand your question.  Or where you
addressing someone else?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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