LL-L "Etymology" 2004.11.24 (05) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

Sorry, this went out under the wrong title and with the wrong number ...
RFH
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Jo Thys <Jo.Thijs1 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.11.23 (08) [E/LS]

Ingmar,

> In Drenthe segget se _poppien_, "little doll" vör "baby"

In Limburg wordt poepke (vs-menneke) gebruikt voor vrouwtjes zangvogels, en
voor meisjes of vrouwen in cafétaal.
Ik heb het even opgesnord en al in het latijn lijkt pupa zowel 'pop' als
'meisje' te betekenen, en 'pupus' kereltje, verwant met puber.

Groeten,

Jo Thys

p.s. Drenthe zou 'drie-hanze' betekenen, (Twente 'twee-hanze'), maar dat
wist je waarschijnlijk al.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

I mentioned _goer_ (<Gö(ö)r>) as one Lowlands Saxon (Low German) word for
'child', usually with a derogatory connotation.  This word has been adopted
by German as _Gör_, formerly _Göre_.

Apparently, this is derived from the Old Saxon word _gôr_ 'small', 'minor',
'pitiful'.  Originally, the noun was feminine *_gôra_, and LS _goere_ >
_goer_ as well as German _Göre_ originally referred to a girl, is thus
semantically close to _wicht_ in Northwestern LS, and the extension to
includes boys is like the extension of _wicht_ in Twente dialects (at least
our Henry's dialect).

Jo's mention of Flemish _menneke_ reminds me of French _mannequin_
(modelling dummy) being derived from Dutch/Flemish diminutive _manneken_
'man' (like Scots _mannie_ perhaps).  This reminded me about a question that
came to my mind recently regarding the word "harlequin."  We know that the
word and its variants in other languages comes from 16th-century French
_(h)arlequin_, assumedly derived from Old French _Hellequin_, _Herlequin_,
_Herlekin_, _Hierlekin_, _Hielekin_, _Helquin_, _Hennequin_, with the early
Italian variant _arlecchino_.  I keep wondering if this does not also
contain this Dutch/Flemish derivation _-quin_ being derived from the
diminutive suffix _-ken_.  Furthermore, I keep wondering if this may not go
back to something like Dutch/Flemish *_kerl(e)ken_ (> _kerelke(n)_) 'little
guy'.  In some Lowlands Saxon dialects (and Saxonized Flemish ones?) this
would be _karl(e)ken_.   The problem in this case lies in the _h_ in French,
for, if I were on to something, we'd expect French *_querlequin_ >/~
_carlequin_.  Is it possible that this /k/ changed to /h/?  Has anyone else
ever suggested this etymology?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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