LL-L "Language politics" 2004.10.09 (10) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 09.OCT.2004 (10) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Uilleam Òg mhic Sheumais <goidel.glas at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2004.10.09 (02) [E]

Latha math, a Lowlanders;

Mark wrote:
> I don't know, but my reading indicates that the French Acadamy has no
> significant control over the French Language of French speakers, for all
> it's efforts; consider 'le weekend, le picnic, le parking &c.' & there

We've got to remember that oftentimes regulation does work: Witness in
Québec "la fin de semaine", "le stationnement" for 'weekend' and
'parking'. Furthermore, there's "le courriel" for "l'e-mail". L'Office
québécoise de la langue française is really good at making neologisms
and getting them to be used - which is important, as French is a
minority language here in North America. I'll relate that to Lowlandic
languages below, Ron - fear not !

Tom wrote:
> It is true that I had completely forgotten the Quebec reference. The
> pronunciation of French there and much of the vocabulary is markedly
> different from the (Northern France) French standard. Does this mean
> there is another standard there?  I have met several French Canadians in
> France. I was very surprised at one woman who restricted her
> conversation because she said she didn't have a French accent.

There is another standard, although I think that formerly Parisian
French was held up as the higher standard - the Parisian French 'r'
actually replaced the native Québécois.

Tom wrote furthermore:
> I concede that this thread is not strictly about Lowlands languages but
> languages in general. For me it ties in with what may be the Lallands
> dialect's future quandry of  whether to create a standard or not.

The problem is the public's mindset. The thing with l'Office de la
langue française is that it is working in a highly nationalistic
environment with a very sympathetic government that is more than
willing to pass laws forcing standards on people. There's the very
urgent sense of being on the precipice of being overwhelmed by "les
anglophones". Meanwhile, in Scotland, you have this idea of Lallans
being not important, being a dialect, etc - it's closeness to English
is a sort of weakness, because it makes it vulernable to being labeled
dialect and not accepted, &c. French in N. America is in the lucky
situation of most definitely being a distinct language. Besides that,
who knows how many Scots support Lallans as a separate language?
There's a significant level of nationalism in the country, but usually
it appears to me that they claim Gaelic, and not Scots, as their
language of identity, or at least language of lip service. But our
various Scottish subscribers can fill us in more completely than I.

Beannachdan,
Uilleam Òg mhic Sheumais

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From: Bill Wigham <redbilly2 at earthlink.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2004.10.07 (03) [E]

From: Bill Wigham  redbilly2 at earthlink.net  LL-L Language Politics

Erik Nielsen, and others, have stuck a solemn note in predicting to gradual
demise of the
Little Languages (almost said minority again).  The obvious question is,
"what can one do about it?"
It would seem that there is enough brain power in this Liste that some
answers to the problem could be engineered.  The Basque solution is not even
an option in my book.  It would however be wonderful if there were some way
to ensure the preservation of these endangered species.  Languages seem to
be constantly in a state of flux and driven by an ever-changing world.
Given that maybe we should be satisfied if the if our favorite second, or
first, language could be incorporated into a larger neighbor language.  The
benefit could certainly be the enrichment of the larger language and the
protection of the smaller one.  I used to be a romantic but life has a way
of kicking that form of insanity out of you after a while.  Just think about
the possibility of adding 100,000 words to a big language, each of the new
words providing a shade of difference apart from its supposed equivalent in
its large neighbor.  How eloquent the beneficiaries could become.  Looking
at it from the other end, could Shakespeare have written anything decent if
he only had a vocabulary of 10,000 words to work with?  We are all capable
of learning new vocabularies, especially if we learn them in real-life
situations.  Many people can learn more than one complete language,
especially in Europe, without it causing psychological problems.  So it
seems possible that the better part of a Little Language could be absorbed
by a larger one for the benefit of both.

Having said all this I expect to be excommunicated from this Liste and it
serves me right.  If anyone has a better solution I, for one, am all ears.
Cheers
Bill

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