LL-L "Semantics" 2004.10.28 (10) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 28.OCT.2004 (10) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ben.Bloomgren at asu.edu <Ben.Bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: Etymology

Hello, Ron and all, I hear the word "reden" for "to speak" in German
alongside "sprechen." What is the difference between those two verbs and are
there such differences in Dutch and other Lowlands languages?
Ben

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Semantics

Hi, Ben!  Good to hear from you.

I hope others will be more helpful then I can be right now.

Roughly speaking, the difference between _sprechen_ and _reden_ in German is
like that of "to speak" and "to talk" in English.  There is a semantic
overlap where you may argue they can be used interchangeably.  If I
_spreche_ German I "speak" German, am able to speak it, or I speak it
habitually.  If I _spreche_ in German I "speak" in German which is getting
close to _reden_ (in) German, "to talk (in) German."  Some German dialects
do not make these differences and may use differnt words to cover both
meanings.  The same goes for Yiddish (רעדן _redn_), which belongs to the
German group.

In ordinary Lowlands Saxon (Low German) speech modes people don't really use
different verbs.  In the North Saxon dialects we use _snakken_ in all these
contexts without sacrificing any semantic subtleties.  _Ik snak
Ingelsch/Engelsch_ 'I (can) speak English', _Ik snak up/op
Ingelsch/Engelsch_ 'I speak in English', 'I talk in English'.

Now, when you use _klönen_ -- which is what Utz mentioned -- you are really
talking about 'chatting', 'conversing', 'shooting the breeze', not just
about speaking or talking.  You can speak and talk by yourself, but you can
not chat by yourself.  (Well, you technically can, but that's a different
matter.)  Likewise, you can _snak_ by yourself, having a monologue, but you
can not _klönen_ by yourself.  _Sey klöönt in/up/op Ingelsch/Englesch_ means
mostly 'They are chatting in English,' 'They are conversing in English', and
the like.  You cannot say *_Ik klöön Ingelsch/Engelsch_ to mean "I speak
English," and if you want to say "I converse in English" you must use either
_up/op_ or _in_.  You *can* say _Ik klöön geyrn up Ingelsch_ 'I like
chatting/conversing in English', which implies that at least one other
person is involved (unless you like having conversations with yourself).

Have I helped or confused you?

Others may have different takes on this.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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