LL-L "Etymology" 2004.10.29 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 29.OCT.2004 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.10.26 (02) [E]

Beste Pyt Berg

Subject: Spanish in Dutch

> In Dutch there is a word I have not seen in LS or Deutsch.
> MOOI does it come from the Spanish MUY?

It seems to me most unlikely. From 'mooi' = beautiful to 'muy' = very, is to
my mind too much of a leap.

Having said that, when I was on the kibbutz, an Argentinian volunteer fell
under the star of an Afrikaans girl, & came to me for a translation of a
suitable compliment, painfully penned in English 'Look at those beautiful
legs!'
Well aware that this 'compliment' would not be received in a positive light,
I was young enough to look forward to the result of the experiment, &
obliged him with; 'Kyk daardie mooi bene!' together with careful schooling
in pronunciation. He was delighted, saying, "Mooi bene! That is just like
the Spanish!" & tried it that evening at dinner. He got a klap for it.
Strange to say, he was impressed by her 'fire', & esteemed the exercise a
success!

Groete,
Mark.

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.10.26 (06) [E]

Beste Ron en Ingmar.

Subject: Etymology

>     There are also Dutch _wichelen_ ["WIx at l@] soothsay , _wichelarij_
>     ["WIx at la:rEi] soothsaying/augury, and I was told that my
> great-grandmother
>     knew how to look for things or water with her _wichelroede_
["WIx at lrud@]
>     i.e. divining-rod. I think this was a catapult like, forked shaped
piece
> of
>     wood.
>     Maybe those _wichel_words are from the same root as _wikken/wikker_?

I use a willow wand about a metre long, split about two thirds its length. I
take a side in each hand, thumbs on the point, knuckles inward & downward.
Then I lift my hands to shoulder height, leaving the other end bobbing
suggestively downwards. It will respond to the subtlest of stimuli. On the
other hand two 'L's' of coathanger wire, already mentioned, work well also.
We call it 'waterwiggel' in Afrikaans, as performed by a 'wiggelaar'. Our
word for willow is 'wilger'.
Justabout anything can be wiggeled, really, provided what the wiggelaar
knows & understands what he's looking for, & it must be real. Mind you,
science hasn't got it all written down. Standing stones & certain cairns
will 'point' to each other, & you can wiggel that too. You will find the
other stone.

Groete,
Mark

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From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.10.27 (07) [E]

Dear Mark,

Subject: LL-L "Etymology

> I would like to know about "pagina."  Dutch is the only language I've seen
> it in besides Spanish.  I understand that "blad" is used as well in Dutch
> for the English word "page", so what's the difference?

Well, slightly off the subject, English does use the construction
'pagination'. It seems to me more likely that Dutch, English & Spanish alike
all inherited the term from the Book-Latin of the clerical scribes.

Yrs,
Mark

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

While I, too, am sceptical regarding the theory that Dutch (and Lowlands
Saxon/Low German) _mooi_ are derived from Spanish (though I don't discount
it altogether), I admit that it must be a relatively late loan (in Middle
Dutch?), because I don't seem to be able to find any form of it in Old Low
Franconian.  'Nice' or 'nice' is _giminnesam_ (lit. "loveable") or _niodsam_
(lit. "desirable"), and 'beautiful' is _skōni_.

For some reason I had always assumed that _mooi_ goes back to a Frisian loan
(given considerable Frisian substrates in the language varieties along the
coast from Southern Jutland to Northern France, and _mooi_ has always
sounded Frisian to me.  However, I can't find a cognate in Old Frisian.  The
closest sounding word group (_moia_, etc.) denoting '(to) bother' etc.
'Beautiful' is _skêne_, 'pleasant' _lustelik_ or _swētelik_. Old Saxon has
_skôni_, _swār_, _wānam_ and _wānlīk(o)_ for 'beautiful', and it has
_giwirthig_, _holdlīk_, _swōti_, _wirthig_ and _wōthi_ for 'pleasant'.

So _mooi_ remains shrouded in mystery.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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