LL-L "Places" 2004.09.29 (03) [E]

Wed Sep 29 18:13:43 UTC 2004

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 29.SEP.2004 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Bill Wigham <redbilly2 at earthlink.net>
Subject: LL-L "Places" 2004.09.28 (10) [E]

LL_L Places,
>>From Bill Wigham
Dear Ron & Al:
        My Brother-In-Law the Rev.Patrick McMahon, goes every year with his
wife to North Germany where they travel on their own bikes.  They really see
the beautiful country side and get to meet the people on a closer level
than when going by car or train.  This year Pat and Jean took their
watercolor painting gear and found plenty to paint.  For example,  One
German had stacked up firewood but half way up the the neat cord he had
installed a triangular frame...like a window,   and placed a pot of
geraniums therein.  Who says those Germans do not have an artistic soul?
Probably a Batzi misconception.

Ron, I had to throw that in because altho I saw a lot from the train in
Hessen it was too fast and I got into trouble with the
Obersturmbannconductor because of our tickets not being in order...he said.
Cheers
Bill
Aus Westfield,MA/USA

----------

From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Places" 2004.09.28 (10) [E]

Luc wrote about the Lüneburger Heide:
> I visited the region two times already. It was very interesting and fun
> to visit (I didn't hear Platt).
> I loved the townhall at Lüünborg (***!).

I spent a few days there last fall (or was it the year before? Time flies!)
in a rural inn. When the locals came over at night to chat, they all spoke
Platt. Most of them were in their forties or older.

At least a quarter of my ancestors come from there, by the way, from the
village of Kirchlinteln.

Speaking of which: there was a German writer, Hermann Löns, who wrote many
stories and at least one novel (set in the 30-year war) about the Lüneburger
Heide; best-known are his hunting and animal stories. Like so many fine
writers on either side, he died in the trenches of WWI; unfortunately, he
was one of those hapless authors who was "adopted" by the Nazis twenty years
after his death, although he did nothing to deserve that. I read some of his
stories to my 11-year-old daughter the other day, and she was fascinated by
the hares who all spoke Heidjer Platt.

Gabriele Kahn

----------

From: Hugo Zweep <hugo.zweep at valuersillawarra.com.au>
Subject: LL-L "Introduction" 2004.09.28 (04) [E]

Ron
Thanks for the web sites. I am, in fact, planning to spend time next year
travelling slowly from Groningen into the LS area with the objective of
seeing how far and wide I can go and still be understood, or understand,
with my Grunningers.

Hugo Zweep

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Places

Bill:

>         My Brother-In-Law the Rev.Patrick McMahon, goes every year with
his
> wife to North Germany where they travel on their own bikes.

It's exceedingly rare for Americans to visit that neck of the woods
voluntarily, unless they have family connections there.  "Germany" to most
is the Rhine, Bavaria and the Black Forest.  The popular travel guru Rick
Steves continuously shows the Netherlands, Belgium and Southern Germany,
also Scandinavia, completely ignoring Northern Germany.

> Ron, I had to throw that in because altho I saw a lot from the train in
> Hessen it was too fast and I got into trouble with the
> Obersturmbannconductor because of our tickets not being in order...he
said.

Well, I guess that's because you had just entered "Germany proper" ...  ;-)

How "American" of you to refer to the bossy, scary conductor as
"Obersturmbann" (= Obersturmbandführer)!  Would you have done so had you
happened to encounter that type, say, in Wales, Russia, Serbia or Portugal?
Or are you claiming that that type is unique to Germany?  This reminds me of
a bunch of young, totally unruly, loud-mouthed, air-head American travelers
I watched having a food fight in the youth hostel cafeteria in Munich in the
1970s.  When the manager finally walked up to them and very nicely asked
them to quit it they broke out in "Heil Hitler" calls and other insults of
this sort.  This was about thirty years ago.  Time to quit perhaps?

Gabriele:

> Speaking of which: there was a German writer, Hermann Löns, who wrote many
> stories and at least one novel (set in the 30-year war) about the
Lüneburger
> Heide; best-known are his hunting and animal stories.

There are also the Freudenthal Brothers (Friedrich and August) who are known
as Heath icons, both as writers and scholars, though they aren't as famous
as Löns.  The Freudenthal Association and the Freudenthal literature prize
are named after them.

> Like so many fine
> writers on either side, he died in the trenches of WWI; unfortunately, he
> was one of those hapless authors who was "adopted" by the Nazis twenty
years
> after his death, although he did nothing to deserve that.

Unfortunately, this sort of thing happened a lot, and we shouldn't throw out
the baby with the bath water just because of that.  Furthermore, some Nazi
party members and sympathizers on both sides of the German-Netherlands and
German-Belgian borders exploited the language and culture continuum as a
propaganda ploy to prepare for and justify occupation of the Netherlands and
Belgium.  Does this mean we should stop mentioning these continua and
celebrate what we share?

Hugo:

> Thanks for the web sites. I am, in fact, planning to spend time next year
> travelling slowly from Groningen into the LS area with the objective of
> seeing how far and wide I can go and still be understood, or understand,
> with my Grunningers.

Good luck with that!  I predict you'll have the easiest time in Eastern
Friesland, Emsland and the Oldenburg area, because those dialects are
geographically and genealogically closest to those of Groningen, all of them
having Frisian substrates.

Hugo, I suggest you prepare for that trip by starting to network now, or
else you might end up like our Luc Vanbrabant who didn't hear any of the
local language.   One way of doing this is to go to my network site
(http://www.sassisch.net/rhahn/low-saxon/plattewelt.htm) and look up the LS
associations of the places you plan to visit, or plan your trip around those
that look interesting to you.  If you wish, I could get you connected with a
couple of people that may be more useful than me.  I tend to go to outdoor
markets and the like, places where the older locals meet and interact,
listen for the language or simply initiate it by addressing the vendors in
LS.  Most of them are from rural areas and will speak the language with you
if you initiae it.  Just start speaking slowly.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================