LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.01 (09) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 01.APR.2005 (09) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2005.04.01 (03) [E]


Tom McRae wrote:

"My question friends is what's the origin of Huntygowk? In Scots a 'Gowk' is

three clowns short of a circus (eg Away Ye go Ye daft gowk Ye) but 'Hunty'?"

Hi Tom, I can’t help you with hunty either, but:

This sound suspiciously like one of the ways the Dutch use the word "gek"

Although it's basic meaning is "insane", ( like gekkenhuis = insane asylum )
we use it idiomatically in several different ways; none of these illicits
the reaction which you get when you tell an AE speaking listener that he/she
is crazy.

Here is a sampling:

Dat is niet gek. ( Pas mal ça )

Jan is een mooie gek. ( John is a funny guy, I am fond of him )

Die jurk ziet er niet gek uit. ( That dress does’nt look bad at all,
actuallly it is rather attractive.)

Jaap is gek met zijn nieuwe computer ( Jaap is so proud of his new computer,
he can’t stop playing with it )

Stop met dat lawaai, ik word er gek van. ( Mother to children: Stop the
noise, it is driving me crazy.

My mother to me: Doe maar gewoon dan doe je al gek genoeg. ( Don’t act in
this extravagant way, you’re abnormal enough when you act like a normal
human being )

Finally a proverb: Hij is goed maar niet gek. (He may be very nice, but you
can’t make a fool of him)

This is just a sampling, there are many more. Jacqueline

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: Etymology

Dag, Reinhard, Lowlanners,

de meersten van Jau schöllt woll dat Woord *appeldwatsch* kennen, HG:
'verquer, besserwisserisch', E: 'obstinate'.

Vöör 'n Stücker wat Doog hevv ick nu ook *beer[n?]dwatsch* höört, un' ick
weet ne recht, wat dat woll meen'n schall. Komt dat woll van 'Beer' E: beer'
or van 'Beern', E: 'pear'?

Greutens/sincerely

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Jacqueline,

In the North Saxon dialects of Low Saxon in Germany you won't find _gek_
(<Geck>) used very often, probably mostly in the far west, but I assume it's
used more in the Westphalian dialects.  Northern Germans tend to associate
the word with the Rhenish area and carnaval.  I don't think you can use it
as an adjective, but I'm not sure.  As an adjective, it sounds particularly
"dialectical" to me.

I guess the most likely North Saxon equivalent is _nar_ (<Narr>), which is
also a German word.  The connected adjectives/adverbs are _narsch_
(<narrsch>) and _närrisch_ respectively.  This expresses less insanity than
foolishness or silliness.  The North Saxon adjective/adverb most likely to
be used to hint at insanity would be _mal_ (<mall>, from French), but it,
too, can be used to imply silliness.  (E.g., _Wees nich so mal!_ 'Don't be
so silly!')  This can even be used inanimates, such as _mallen kraam_ or
_mal tuyg_ ("stupid/silly stuff").  In that sense it transitions over to
_dwatsch_ or _appel-dwatsch_ which, semantically originating in the idea of
"contrary," tends more toward "non-sensical."  It too can be used with
inanimate and animate objects; e.g., _(appel-)dwatschen kraam_ 'nonsense'
and _(appel-)dwatschen keyrl_ 'silly, nonsense-talking guy'.

Which, most elegantly, takes me to our Jonny's question about
_beer[n?]dwatsch_, which I'll respond to in English.

Jonny, I've come across that word too and assume it's a dialectical variant
of _appel-dwatsch_, which contains the word for "apple" -- so "apple-silly."

Yes, I assume _beren-dwatsch_ contains the word for 'pear'.

(An extended version of _dwatsch_ appears to be _dwaller-watsch_.)

Apples and pears seem to imply ordinariness or inferiority.  You get this
for instance in _bakbeern-kraam_ or _bakberen-tuyg_ ("baking pear stuff" =
"dried pear stuff") in reference to "(ordinary) stuff," derogatory reference
to belongings; e.g., _Al syn bakberen-kraam ligt noch up d'n boen rüm_ (<All
sien Backbeernkraam liggt noch up'n Böön rüm.>) 'All is stuff is still lying
about in the attic.'

Apparently, LS _dwatsch_ is related to German _Quatsch_ 'nonsense'.  LS /dv/
occasionally corresponds to G /kv/, as also in _dwars_ = _quer_
'transverse', 'across'.  (Cf. German _Quark_ from Slavonic _tvarok_)

Is this worth at least 0.10 Euro(s)?

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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