LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.05 (04) [E]

Tue Apr 5 15:23:12 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.04 (07) [E]

Elsie Zinsser wrote:
"I grew up saying exactly that (or rather koekoe!) and think it relates to
'koekeloer'. Another word probably related is 'koewie!' for hello!"

I think _koewie_ - if I understand the pronunciation - is possibly derived
from English _cooee_. Originally a call of recognition in one of the eastern
Australian indigenous languages, it was borrowed into Australian English
and, because of the British Army, soon became part of general imperial
slang*. It was still very current in the twentieth century in the south of
England but I reckon its decline began in the 1930s. Its appearance in South
Africa might be related to the Australian troop arrivals during the
Anglo-Boer War, or immigration from Australia and England.

*The term was used on British Army recruitment posters in Australia in the
early twentieth century - along the lines of "Coo-ee! Australians, will you
answer the call?"

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.04 (07) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>> > > Gowk_ and _gack_ appear to be related to Dutch _gek_, Low Saxon
_gek_
> > > (<Geck>) and German _Geck_, all 'fool'.<

OED re cuckoo

Cuckoo - The figurative sense  'fool' of the word 'cuckoo' is found in many
languages.   Superseded OE geac which though originally imitative, ceased
through normal phonetic development to suggest the bird' cry. It correlates
to OFris, OSax  gak  OHG gouh ( G gauch, itself superseded as the bird's
name by kuckcuck from the LG cf MDu cuccuc, Du koekoek)  ONorse gaukr ( see
GOWK)

Gowk + dialect for 'cuckoo' : fool or half-wit. << ON gaukr  OFris , OS gak
 OHG gouk ( in MHG fool G gauch)  <<< C Germanic ( exc gothic) *gaukaz of
imitative origin.

Per chance a BBC Radio 4 about words (Monday this week) mentioned 'Hunting
the gowk' and related gowk to the cuckoo You can hear the programme via
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/wordofmouth_20050401.shtml

Heather

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

You do indeed rock, all you etymologists, more and more following our
Heather's flag flying high. Nice to witness such fervor and ability!  If
Heather keeps this up she'll end up as our official etymological explorer
team director.  Wouldn't that be a feather in one's cap?

Elsie:

> I grew up saying exactly that (or rather koekoe!) and think it
> relates to 'koekeloer'.

You may be right.  In Low Saxon we have _kukeluren_ and _kunkeluren_ for 'to
lurk' (hence my suggestion to refer to list lurkers as _ku(n)kelurers_, also
to be spelled as _koe(n)keloerers_ for our Low Franconians).  I have a
feeling that the form with the /n/ came second, because _kukeln_ can mean
'to watch secretly'.  (The /-l-/ seems to suggest a frequentive case.)  I
take it this /kuuk-/ is related to /kiik-/ 'to look'.  (So, "to look many
time > all the time".)  The verb _luren_ (related to English 'to lure'?)
means 'to lie in ambush' > 'to watch and wait (in a hidden place)' > 'to
wait'.

Paul Finlow-Bates wrote under "Resources":

> My own gandmother died in 1960 and was born about
> 1880. She always called a funnel a "tundish", and coals
> in a fire didn't glow, they "got a gleed on".

These are very interesting.

I take it that _gleed_ is a cognate of German _Glut_, but it's umlauted, an
extension of the equivalent of "glow".  I assume it started with the Old
English verb /gloo-/ _glōwan_ (_glôwan_) 'to glow' developing into umlauted
/glöö-/ and extended _glœ^d_ (*_gloe^d_), which is in fact an Old English
word for 'blaze' or '(fire) glow'.  I would expect this to have developed
into Modern English _gleed_, which is preceise what Paul presented to us.

I was baffled re "tundish" at first.  The OED does list it (also the
alternative "tun-dish") and explains it as being composed of "tun" and
"dish".  Old and Middle English _tunne_ developed into "tonne" > "ton" in
most dialects.  It's earlier meaning may have been "barrel" or "keg."  A
"dish" (< _disc_) because as a flat or only slightly concave structure and
came also be used in the sense of 'sieve' or 'strainer', as in goldmining.
Apparently, "tundish" began in brewing.  The OED descries it as "a wooden
dish or shallow vessel with a tube at the bottom fitting into the bung-hole
of a tun or cask, forming a kind of funnel used in brewing," and it adds "In
mod. use, a broad, open container with one or more holes in the bottom, used
in various industrial processes, e.g. to feed molten metal into an ingot
mould so as to avoid splashing and give a smoother flow."

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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