LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.13 (10) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 13.APR.2005 (10) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.13 (01) [A/E]

>> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Etymology
>>
>> Hans (above):
>>
>>> I fear engl. "yonder" (du. "ginder")
>>
>> Low Saxon has _günt_ ~ _gunt_ (> _güntsyds_ ~ _guntsyds_).

In Dutch dialects and Town Frisian (based on Hollandic dialects,
mostly), the form
"gunter" is used, but mostly in expressions like "fan hier tot gunter"
(in Harlingen dialect)
(== very large, very far away)

>> Regards,
>> Reinhard/Ron
>> From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
>> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.11 (10) [E/LS]
>>
>> Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>>> What about "yonder"? <
>>
>> OED:   yonder: over there : corresponds to Old Saxon  gendra ( adj)
>> West
>> Frisian ginder ( adj) = on this side    Middle Dutch  ghinder, gunder
>> (Dutch ginder)  Gothic jaindre.

Modern West Frisian has "jinsen" (but this is archaic, mostly, older
people might still use it).
Saterfrisian has "juns" (as German "jene, jener, jenes)(see yonder for
the vowel, I think)
and Mooring (and probably more North Frisian dialects) has "dajanter,
jjanter" etc so also "article + demonstrative"
as in "dadeer" etc.  Also "jans" (< *jins ) occurs there.

>> yon = Old English  geon   correspondsa with variation of vowels to
>> OFris
>> jen(a)   MLG  gene   MDu  ghens   OHG  jener   Goth   jains = that

Yes, curiously enough, also Saterfrisian has this vowel variant.

>> There is a parallel series of forms without the initial consonant:
>> OHG ener
>> ON enn, inn  Oslav  onu  Sanskrit  ana = this one
>>
>> It actually doesn't explain the -der  suffix
>>
>> Heather
Mei freonlike groetnis,

Henno Brandsma

----------

From: Ben Bloomgren <ben.bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.04.13 (01) [A/E]

What do Germans use instead of Jener?

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Ben!

_Jener_ (masc.), _jene_ (fem./pl.) and _jenes_ (neut.) sound bookish or
poetic.  I would probably say things like _der/die/das ... da/dort
(hinten/drüben)_ to express that something is far away, just as you would
say something like _the/that ... (over) there_ instead of _yon ..._ in
Modern English.  In Low Saxon I'd say something like _de/dat ... daar_,
pretty much as in English.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================