LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 22.APR.2005 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Clarkedavid8 at aol.com <Clarkedavid8 at aol.com>
Subject: LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (01) [E]

It is seen in Dutch and Flemish paintings, but it used to be found all over
Europe, like the bagpipes. Neither are specifically Scottish or specifically
Flemish, as far as I am aware.

david clarke

---------

From: Ben Bloomgren <ben.bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (01) [E]

Tom, I have heard somewhere that they have paintings of a game like golf in
China in the thirteenth century Anno Domini.

----------

From: Jo Thijs <jo.thijs1 at telenet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (01) [E]]

> From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
> Subject: Games

Hi Tom,

>On reflection I can't help wondering if the game did originate
>somewhere in Flemish territory, anybody know ?

There's a sport that shows some ressemblance to golf which is called
'klootschieten'. The goal is to reach the target in the least possible
turns. Contrary to golf the ball (kloot) is trown, but the target is often a
few 100 meters from the starting point. It is played along the roads, and
players make a tour like on a golf course. I've seen a game somewhere in the
Netherlands (can't remember where) but I guess it was also played in
Flanders.

Groeten,

Jo Thys

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Games

While it may be true that golf was introduced to Scotland by the "Flemish,"
I feel it's impossible to tell where most games began, and I take all such
proclamations with a grain of salt.

Many games are found all over Eurasia and often coincide with those in
Africa and the Americas.  Where there is no strong possibility of spread
(such as in the case of polo, which existed a long time ago from Western
Europe to Japan and is believed to have originated in Persia or Central
Asia), similarly field hocky (with variants from Irish iománaíocht /hurling
and Scottish camanachd /shinty to East Asian variants -- we should just
assume that similar games sprang up independently from each other.  After
all, ball games are found all over the globe, and coming up with beating a
ball with a stick or a crook toward a goal or into a hole, or kicking,
throwing or beating it isn't exactly rocket science, is it?

Above, Jo mentions _klootschieten_ (a word that sounds really nasty to Low
Saxon ears, by the way -- like ... well, _clot scítan_, to say it in Old
English for the sake of civility). If I'm not mistaken, variants of it are
found throughout Western and Eastern Friesland (_Bosseln_), and it may
belong to a Frisian substrate in Hollandish cultures.  However, there is a
very similar game in Ireland, especially in Corcach/Cork and
Ard-Macha/Armagh: "road ball," and the supposedly ancient Celtic _ Poc Fada_
competitions is not far from it either.  Is there a connection, or are they
independent inventions?  Might a similar game have been taken from the
European continent to Britain and Ireland?

Wondering ...

Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================