LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (09) [E]

Fri Apr 22 22:10:09 UTC 2005

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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (05) [E]

Van Kolf tot Golf

I found this webpage that discusses golf and something called Kolf.

http://www.cultuurwijzer.nl/nwc.rijksmuseumamsterdam/cultuurwijs.nl/i000807.
html
<http://www.cultuurwijzer.nl/nwc.rijksmuseumamsterdam/cultuurwijs.nl/i000807
.html>

Mark Brooks

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From: Gustaaf van Moorsel <gvanmoor at aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (01) [E]

R/R wrote:

> Above, Jo mentions _klootschieten_ (a word that sounds really nasty to Low
> Saxon ears, by the way -- like ... well, _clot scítan_, to say it in Old
> English for the sake of civility).

I assure you, it has the same nasty connotation in modern
Dutch as well, which I think is one of the reasons the game
never really caught on ...  A less objectionable variant of
'kloot' is 'kluit', which simply is a clump of earth.

But the original subject was the game of golf, in particular
its origin.  In 17th century Netherlands there was a popular
pastime named 'kolf'.  More about 'kolf' (en 'klootschieten')
can be found at:

http://www.cultuurwijzer.nl/nwc.rijksmuseumamsterdam/cultuurwijs.nl/i000807.html

Gustaaf

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (05) [E]

Ron wrote:
"...we should just assume that similar games sprang up independently from
each other. After
all, ball games are found all over the globe, and coming up with beating a
ball with a stick or a crook toward a goal or into a hole, or kicking,
throwing or beating it isn't exactly rocket science, is it?"

I completely agree. I found myself kicking an old arm-length stick idly
about a field the other day, but it doesn't mean I have fused hurling and
football. It just means I was kicking an old arm-length stick idly about a
field while my mind was elsewhere. (Highly recommended for stress relief,
however.)

If you hand a group of toddlers from various cultures a ball they will soon
have made up a game, often resembling a mixture of soccer, football,
basketball and catch, thereby demonstrating the shared, basically human
origin of most - if not all - ball games.

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (01) [E]

I always thought everything was invented by Ivan Ivanovich Somebody-or-Other

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (01) [E]

From: Jo Thijs <jo.thijs1 at telenet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Games" 2005.04.22 (01) [E]]

> There's a sport that shows some ressemblance to golf which is called
> 'klootschieten'. The goal is to reach the target in the least possible
> turns. Contrary to golf the ball (kloot) is trown, but the target is often
> a
> few 100 meters from the starting point. It is played along the roads, and
> players make a tour like on a golf course. I've seen a game somewhere in
> the
> Netherlands (can't remember where) but I guess it was also played in
> Flanders.
>
> Groeten,
>
> Jo Thys

Reuben Epp replies:
reuben at silk.net

I was first introduced to 'Klootsheeten' many years ago by Hein Diers,
the then well-known author of Low Saxon in the dialect of Oldenburg.
I replied to him, pronouncing the name of the game as 'Klootschieten.'
Thereupon, he bounced from his chair and emphasized, 'Klootscheeten'
not 'Klootschieten.' Recognizing the difference between 'scheeten' and
'schieten,' I now do not make that mistake.

Cheers!

Reuben

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Games

Paul (above):

> I always thought everything was invented by Ivan Ivanovich
> Somebody-or-Other

Don't you mean Baron Untel Tartempion de Château Commonsappelle de
Trucmuche?

Reuben, the _kloot_ part doesn't help either, no matter which way you turn
it.  It all sounds suspiciously like _kloyten-schyten_ ~ _kluyten-schyten_
(<Klötenschieten> ~ <Klütenschieten>), *_Kluteschiete_ in Plautdietsch, I
suppose.

On this lovely note,
Have a nice weekend!

Reinhard/Ron

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