LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.08.07 (08) [E]

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From: Rikus Kiers <kiersbv at tiscali.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.08.07 (07) [E]

Jacqueline and Reinhardt

About tove-love
Maybe it is a reading mistake, but I think that is to simple.
I read the lullaby on the mentioned webside and discovered:
Stof duy Jasiu Fest
Sleep Johny sound

Again the t in stead of the l.

This needs a further analysis and explication

Greetings and respect
Rikus Kiers

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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
Subject: "Language varieties"

> From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.08.07 (03) [D/E]
>
> Felix, Theo, Ron.
>
> Re: etymology of tove, stöf:
>
> Rather than an etymological problem, could it simply be the misreading of
a
> handwritten original. This seems more likely since tove-love has the
mistake
> in the first letter of the word and stof-slaap in the second position.
What
> is the likelyhood of that happening. Jacqueline
>
Possibly a misreading of -ł- !?
Greetings
Holger

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Ah, Holger!  Another nice one!  I guess it's even easier to misread the 
Polish/Kashubian/Sorbian slashed "l" as "t".  In Standard Polish and Sorbian 
it's pronounced [w], but it is derived from a velar "l" (as in English 
"ball"), and some dialects still have that "thick l."  However, while this 
works well in the case of *_tove_ = *_łove_ 'love', it does not in the case 
of *_śtöf_ = *_śłöf_ because the velar "l" does not go with the palatal <ś>. 
In that case I'd expect *_szł..._.  I find one other thing fishy in each of 
these two words.  I see not reason for a "v" in the word for 'love', since 
it's a foreign letter in Polish and I would expect *_towe_ = *_łowe_ (<w> = 
[v]).  From what I know about Silesian German, _schlöf_ for 'sleep!' is 
quite unexpected.  I would expect *_schlof_ or *_schluf_, and those vowel 
would also go with the velar "l"; thus I suspect this to be a misreading of 
*_szłof_ [SłOf] or _szłóf_ [SłUf], or *_ślof_ [s'lOf] or *_ślóf_ [s'lU].

If *_tove_ is indeed _łowe_ ["LowE] it would maybe point to Middle English 
or Middle Scots origin (_loue_ ~ _love_ ["lo:v@] or ["Lo:v@]).  Old Saxon 
has the candidates _liof_ and _luva_, Old German _liob_ and _lioba_, Old 
Frisian _luve_

Anyway, it seems we need to take this little language sample with the grain 
of salt, given also what seems to be misspelled *_frmdy_ for *_fremdy_. 
Here's a tentative reconstruction following the version we were given:

Śtöf duy buwła fest!
Skumma frmdy gest,
Skumma muma ana fettyn,
Z’ brennia nysła ana epułn,
Śtöf duy Jasiu fest!

Ślóf, duy buwła, fest!
'S kumma fremdy gest.
'S kumma muma ana fettyn.
Z' brennia nysła ana epułn.
Ślóf, duy buwła, fest!

German spelling:

Schluf dui, Buwla, fest!
'S kumma fremde Gäst.
'S kumma Muhma ana Vettin.
S' brenja Nissla ana Äppuln.
Schluf dui, Buwla, fest!

Tentative phonetics (SAMPA):

SLUf dUI "bu:vLa fEst
"skUma "frEmd@ gEst
"skUma mu:ma "ana "fEtIn
"zbrEnja "nIsLa ana "EpULn
SLUf dUI "bu:vLa fEst

This makes a lot more sense to me, would fit into general Silesian phonology 
while having certain special characteristics.  Among the more interesting 
features of certain Germanic varieties in the east you find /ng/ > /nj/, 
thus _brengen_ > _brenga_ > _brenja_ '(they) bring'.  This is a feature 
shared by Mennonite Low Saxon (Plautdietsch, that came from much farther 
north).  It would be interesting to know if this is a feature acquired in 
the east or if it was imported from the far west.

This final _-a_ is certainly very typical for Upper Silesian German.  (Lower 
Silesian has _-e_.)  This also goes for what in Standard German is _-en_.

My Standard German translation:

Schlaf du, Büblein, fest!
Es kommen fremde Gäst'.
Es kommen Muhmen und Vettern.
Sie bringen Nüsslein und Äpfel.
Schlaf du, Büblein, fest!

My Eastern Yiddish translation:

שלאָף דו, ייִנגעלע, פֿעסט!
ס'קומען פֿרעדע געסט.
ס'קומען מומען און פֿעטערן.
זײ ברענגען ניסלעך און עפלן.
שלאָף דו, ייִנגעלע, פֿעסט!

Shlof du, yingele, fest!
S'kumen fremde gest.
S'kumen mumen un fetern.
Zey brengen nislekh un epln.
Shlof du, jingele, fest!

German spelling:

Schlof du, Jingele, fest!
'S kummen fremde Gäst.
'S kummen Muhmen un Vettern.
Sej brengen Nisslech un Äppeln.
Schlof du, Jingele, fest!

(Compare the Yiddish one with the Wymysojer version!)

The Wymysojer variety clearly is basically Silesian German with some other 
vocabulary thown in.  Until the expulsion of anyone deemed ethnically 
German, these German dialects used to coexist with the Silesian dialects of 
Polish.

Here are some samples of other Silesian German dialects:

Dialect of Kłodzko/Glatz (Upper Silesian):

Dodoowa been ich derhaime"
Nammt a Stecka ei de Hand,
Lott ons of de Barje steija!
Satt, wos fier a Wonderland
Onsa Aacha sich tutt zeija!

Leit's nie donda heegebrätt,

Wie a hibsch gemostert Tichla?
Oawer goar, wenn ainer hätt
Oofgebleetert's Belderbichla?
Dodoowa been ich derhaime,
Wuu zengstrem Barje stehn.
Mai Groofschoft, mei ainzije, klaine,
Du Ländla, wunderscheen!

Lower Silesian, Germany (similar to my grandmother's):

's koam amo Ennr zu mir, woas kenner aus der Äberlausitz woar, dar wullte uf 
Äberlausitzsch woas viertroin, ich sellt'sn waign derr Aussprooche 
iebrhiern.
Ich soite: ,Na, doo schißt ock luus!' Und a fungk oa. Ar hott aber 'n 
Zungenschlaag nö richt'g wegk, ar kunnte sei Schmecklappel nä wie sichs 
gehurrt an Maule rimwelkern, derrmitte klong olls su troige, 's woar kee 
Soft  hinne.
,Halt!' soit ich, ,woart amo! doo miß merr irschtert a boar Vuriebungn machn 
derrzu! doas mit dan ,r' is noo nä richt'g und doas mit ,l' o nä; Soit amo: 
,rrr'-
,r' machte dar. -
Nee, Ihr mißt de Zunge ubm on Gubm oalähn, su ,rrr'. Nu soit amo 
Rrrhabarrrberrr'.
,Rhabarber'- ,Nee, Rrrhabarrrberrr'.
,Rrhabarrber.' Nu, doas is no kenner, darde ei derr Äberlausitz gewachsn 
is. -  Doo hoa 'ch Euch amo woas uhfgeschriebn dohiet, ich waarsch Euch amo 
vierlaasn, doas laast Ihr derrnoo amo:
,Ei Ruppersdorf doo rissn de Riepl Rießler-Reinhulds Runkelriebm raus und ei 
Reinsch-Richards rutn Rampler-Rusn-Rankn rupptn die Rajkl o noo droarim!'
Na, ich ducht mersch ju glei - 's woar nischt nä.
Mitm ,L' gings glei goar nä. Ich goabm doo an annern Zädl: Nü laast amo:
Lucke-Lobl, Lurenz-Laberächt und Liebschersch-Lui ei Lekkerschdurf giehn ei 
leisn Laderlotschn und lussn 'ch lange schunt lange Loodn wachsen!'

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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