LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.08.16 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 16.AUG.2005 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Þjóðríkr Þjóðreksson <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2005.08.15 (04) [E]


Yes, I'm from region Antwerp. I'm almost a student Norwegian (need to have 
half a month more patience) and indeed my interests in Scandinavia are very 
strong, as are my interests in Vikings and history etc etc etc.
My real name is Diederik, and my father's called Thierry which is 
historically the same, thence I came up with þjóðríkr þjóðreksson (with í 
versus e as 2 existing variants, where I use both to make an (artificial) 
difference between Diederik and Thierry) as my Old Icelandic name.

Secondly, interesting to see that this nivellering (as it's called in Dutch) 
happens everywhere, and not only in what we like to call the "civilised" and 
"developed" countries (as I used to think in a far, dark past). The more 
people learn to write and read, the more unevitably it becomes that both 
start to influence one another (but the written, elitary one stronger than 
the spoken, vulgar one). You can try to stop this (that seems to be one of 
the purposes of this list ;)) but of course we also know, on the other hand, 
that it can't be stopped. Compare the big Latin/French influence on English, 
maybe some loremasters of the old days were also mourning for the many words 
getting lost that period but the mass doesn't care about it and look at what 
english we speak nowadays...
Same for Antwerpian (in fact I have no idea how to call in in proper 
English, Antwerpish?), we got a huge French vocabulary as well*, so it's a 
bit tricky sometimes when you have to chose between a Standard Dutch, 
Germanic one and an Antwerpish, Romance one... one can argue which one of 
these would be the very "original". But for easiness' sake I usually stick 
to the Antwerpian one of course ;) (if I know it, that is).
Just like the citizens used to take up a lot of French words, now they're 
indoctrinated to use the Hollandic words.
That's how it goes.

*I once heard that our southern neighbours say: "Pour comprendre le 
Bruxellois, on doit connaître le Flamand" (for understanding Brussels'ish 
(??), you must know Flemish). Brussels as well as Antwerp both have dialects 
with, in vocabulary, many French words. Nowadays, with the Frenchifying 
(??), probably it's the other way round sometimes: the vulgus speaks French 
with a big Flemish influence(/Brussels'ish dialect), so one might hear 
"strotje" for a little street, Dutch straatje, Antw. strotje, even for more 
French-talking people.
At least, my French teacher told me recently, so I'll be a nice pupil and 
trust her on her word.

Diederik Masure

>From: Ben J. Bloomgren <godsquad at cox.net>
>Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2005.08.12 (06) [E]
>
>doomed to be of interest only for
>literati.
>
>Þjóðríkr, first of all, are you from Brabant? If so, where did
>you get the
>Icelandic/Old Norse name? Secondly, you bring up a point that I am
>discovering about Tamil, a Dravidian language spoken in southeastern
>India.
>It is a diglossic language in that the literary language differs
>greatly
>from the spoken forms to the point where one could say that there
>are two
>languages. Only recently have the spoken forms come under the
>influence of
>literary Tamil due to movies and media. Even still, however, there
>is a
>debate as to whether Tamilians should use literary forms or local
>and
>cast-specific forms. Now that globalization is so huge, people want
>to sound
>as if they have no dialect, so they speak literary Tamil and take
>pains to
>remove their regionalisms from their speech. It reminds me of how
>Arabs
>recite the
>قُرْآَنْ . They remove all regional accents that they can in
>order to recite
>it in its purest form.
>
>Ben


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