LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.08.21 (02) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 21.AUG.2005 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sabine Cretella <sabine_cretella at yahoo.it>
Subject: Term: "abschreim" - nds?

Hi, I have one term that drives me mad so far: abschreim.

This term is in Werner's list - the recurrences I find are of course of
his list and then in Franconian and in the Upper Palatinate language.

Now the thing is Franconian words are also present in North Germany/the
Netherlands: Frisian Dutch, West Frisian, Region around Düsseldorf. So
it could be that somewhere "abschreim" is used within nds, even if it is
rare. For now I will classify this word with Franconian and Upper
Palatinian (is this term correct in English?) where I am sure it is
correct, but since I know that the term comes out of a text or a book:
it would be really interesting to find out if it is used. I'll add these
notes to the discussion page as well.

Thank you for any help on this specific term.

Btw.:  for other terms I could not find out to which spelling they
belong, but I found quite some recurrances. I am adding these
recurrances to the term itself (under Examples/Esempi) in order to have
a visible sign where they are used.

http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bookstoben
http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Autobohn

So these words will remain there without regional attribution, but I
would very much appreciate it if you could help me to find out to wich
ortography/region they belong. As long as they are marked only nds they
basically are only there as reference to understand the texts where the
word is used - if we can attribute one or more definite regions and/or
ortographies it means that the word can be used within spellcheckers as
well.

Thank you again for your attention.

Best wishes from a cloudy and windy Italy (it is time for rain ... at
least I hope so).

Sabine

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From: Dan Prohaska <danielprohaska at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Dialekt

Leyve Reinhard un al dey annere,
Kanst du, or eyn vun dey annere platsnakkers maal op dey fulgend websyd
kyken un daar rinhoyren wat dat voyr'n plat is. Schult ji maal en dank voyr
hebben:

http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~naeser/ld00.htm

Dan

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Ciao, Sabine and Dan, and the rest of "you Lowlands lot"!

Hello, from the San Francisco Bay Area, and sorry about the irregular
transmissions and my preoccupation with "real life" stuff.

Sabine, I don't think you need to delve into "exotica" (to which anything
South German belongs in the minds of die-hard Northerners).  I don't
remember if I mentioned it before, but my assumption has been that a
Missingsch word got mixed in the the rest, because many people find it
hard to decide where exactly the borderline between Low Saxon (Low German)
and the Low-Saxon-influenced German dialects of the north lies, though the
line is very clear to anyone halfway "expert."  (I guess the situation is
similar in the relationship between casual Scottish English and actual
Scots.)

As you may be aware already, "Missingsch" are German dialects with Low
Saxon substrates.  These are particularly strongly developed in the larger
northern cities.  Typically, Low Saxon phonology tends to apply,
specifically the phonology of the local LS dialects that make up the
particular substrates, and all sorts of assimilation rules are most
striking.  _Abschreiben_ -> _abschreibn_ -> _abschreibm -> _abschreim_ is
perfectly within the realm of possibilities.

The borderline between pure Missingsch (now mostly moribund varieties) and
other Northern German dialects is not as distinct as that between Low
Saxon and Missingsch, thus between two languages.  Missingsch features are
found in a number of casual North German dialects and sociolects.  So, on
the German side there is a type of sliding scale.  I would not be
surprised to hear _abschrei(b)m_ in one of the "better" Northern German
dialects, "cleaned-up" versions of Missingsch, so to speak.

Low Saxon:
afschrieven (["afSri:v=m])
afschrieben (["afSri:b=m])

German:
Missingsch:
abschrei(b)m (["apSra:/I(b)m])
Standard:
abschreiben (["apSraIb at n])

The verb means 'to copy in writing'.

Dan:

> Kanst du, or eyn vun dey annere platsnakkers maal op dey fulgend
> websyd
> kyken un daar rinhoyren wat dat voyr'n plat is. Schult ji maal
> en dank voyr hebben:

Tja, voer my is dat upstünds nich so licht, man ik schal dat eyrstdaags
wul geyrn doun. Man ... daar sünd so veel links.  Wat snakst Du nu nip un
nau vun?

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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