LL-L "Language learning" 2005.11.30 (11) [E]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 30 November 2005 * Volume 11
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From:  Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language learning" 2005.11.30 (01) [E]

Dear Sandy, Paul, Heather & All:

Subject: LL-L "Language learning"

> As I've said before, the use of "of" as an auxiliary has a venerable
> history. The American short-story writer Sherwood Anderson used it
> copiously as part of what otherwise seems to be pretty much standard
> English. As he was a newspaper editor most of his life, not to mention
> the fact that he's acknowledged as one of the great short-story writers,
> I don't think it's as easy as all that to dismiss it as ignorance.

> It seems to me from reading blogs that so many people write "of" because
> they think of it as that word, not as some sort of misspelling of
> "have". There are people who use it quite consistently amongst excellent
> English prose. It seems that it's quite an old written usage that we're
> not widely familiar with only because of publishers blocking it because
> they follow Strunk and White too slavishly, and yet it arises time and
> time again in writing because that's how many English speakers think.

We should not also overlook the usages of informal language. A man who would
in a formal context say "Come and have a cup of coffee!", would with
equinamity tell a friend in the corridor, "xum nav ukufe kofi."

"I would of" often serves in contexts properly belonging to "I would've"
(in both speech and writing) for those uncomfortable with the apostrophe,
but they know and use both 'of' and 'have' in appropriate context.

There is also place for reporting informal language in formal writing,
particularly in short stories. C.S. Lewis, who is no slouch when it comes to
correct English, reports informal language freely and effectively in his
novels. So do others. There is also a place for reporting 'informal text' in
formal English, even, Heaven help us, SMSspeak.

For the consolation of the pedants (of whom I am one - within limits)! Even
with this most accumulative of languages, English, there is a body of
'temporary language' embraced by all manner of social groupings. Call it
slang but it is not always either filthy or impoverished language, but often
technical or practical, and it lasts only as long as it is useful. Now there
is the SMS, and someone mentioned the telegraph. Thaes ofereode, thisses swa
maeg. As technology improves the keyboard will pass the way of the dial, and
voice, I suspect, with all its shortcomings, will reign supreme.

Yrs,
Mark

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From:  David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Language learning" 2005.11.30 (01) [E]

> From: Obiter Dictum <obiterdictum at mail.ru>
> Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2005.11.29 (03) [E]
>
>>   am not sure but wasn't this the case with the Chevy Nova as well? In
>> colloquial
>> South American Spanish Nova - No Va  as in no go?
>>
>> Remember the Japanese STARION automobile some years ago now ?
>> Not an attempt to combine chemistry and astronomy but a mistaken
>> variant on STALLION,
>>
> My two cents: Speaking of Japanese cars - remember Mitsubishi Pajero's
> marketing failure in Spain? Or was it a Latin American market?:)
>
> ----------

Re the above, here in Peru there's a football team called 'Deportivo Wanka'

David Barrow

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language learning" 2005.11.30 (01) [E]


From: Ian Pollock
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2005.11.29 (03) [E]
(talking about South American Spanish Nova - No Va as in no go?)

"Nope, this is a myth. The car sold just fine in Spanish speaking
countries. It was obvious to them as it is to us that "nova" in this
sense conveys a notion of "new" - after all, they have words like
"novato" (novice), "novedad" (newness), etc. And "no va" is not
colloquial Spanish, it's perfectly neutral.
Salud!
-Ian Pollock"

Further to this, there was a tale doing the rounds when Mitsubishi released 
the 4X4 vehicle they named "Pajero".  It supposedly means "Wildcat" in South 
America, but (so the story goes) in Spain it means....well....somebody who 
plays with themselves......!!

Another myth?
 ! ;
Paul

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language learning"

Dear Ron, dear Lowlanders,

'spiritus ex vino', in German we say 'Schnapsidee'.

Encouraged by my own son tonight I was taken with a crazy idea: the creation 
of a LL-L-division for very young people.
It perhaps should be outside of our 'normal'(???) traffic, but could fit 
into (with?) our global patterns, including both, namely conserving and 
being protagonistic.

Have a look at the new composition of 10th anniversary sites- it's a matter 
of open ideas, meanwhile.

Too familiar, at least? I don't think so, because I guess there is a lot of 
Lowlanders who could already have and will get in future children who early 
may be interested.

I remember a discussion about christianization in England on the one and in 
our region on the other side, and one of my sons (he's twenty) could use the 
whole thread and all postings from our members regarding this topic for a 
(very!!) good examination at his college.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language learning

Jonny, above:

> Too familiar, at least? I don't think so, because I guess there is a lot 
> of
> Lowlanders who could already have and will get in future children who
> early may be interested.

Sure, especially if they become too familiar with each other.  ;-)  And some 
Lowlands lovebirds show great promise.

Seriously, though, I personally think it's a good idea (even though it will 
create more work).  I could see something like a kid's corner in a 
newsletter, a sort of juvenile companion.  It could be our contribution to 
the creation of new blood, assuring a constant supply of glossogeeks.  Also, 
this might attract some schools.  Let's see what other Lowlanders think 
about it.  Bear in mind, though, that we are fortunate to have very young 
Lowlands members already.  It would be interesting to see what they have to 
say about this idea, also what our many members with children have to say.

And talking about "juvenile" ...

Dave wrote above:

> Re the above, here in Peru there's a football team called 'Deportivo 
> Wanka'

And the team's mascot isn't the wildcat by any chance, is it?

Japanese entrepreneurs are still the unbeaten masters, e.g., ...

Drinks:
   Salty Cat
   Monkey Fizz
   BJ (Coffee)
   Human Water
   Coolpis

Candy:
   Mother Stick
   Creamy Ball
   Angel Sweet Asse

Hours of edification to be had here: http://www.engrish.com/

Reinhard/Ron 

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