LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.10 (02) [E]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 10 December 2005 * Volume 02
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From: Ben J. Bloomgren <Ben.Bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.09 (01) [E]

Heather,

both mean the same thing, thanks to a bit of common sense or cultural 
agreement. But I said the verb has to come after the object. This is because 
the verb "eat" varies in BSL according to what's eaten: a piece of cake, a 
slice of pizza, a potato crisp, dinner with fork and knife, they're all held 
in different ways. And just as I can't tell what the man's curved hand was 
before he signs "full moon", I can't tell what the girl's hand is supposed 
to be holding until the sign for "cake", "pizza"
or whatever, has been made, so the verb must come after the object!

I smell Altaic and some Native American languages here. It sounds to me as 
though the way in which the cake or pizza or tenth kingsized candy bar is 
held is almost like a case marker in spoken speech. Am I wrong there? How do 
other sign languages in the Netherlands, northern Germany and Belgium deal 
with this?
Ben

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2005.12.09 (03) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>I can place an
adverb between 'king' and 'runs' so: 'the king quickly runs' but I can't
place an adverb between 'the' and 'king': 'the quickly king runs'. I
conclude that I can't do this because 'the king' forms a discrete
structure within the sentence, that the adverb 'quickly' modifies at a
sentence level and that it therefore cannot break up the unity of the<

I wonder whether our brains 'understand'  "the king" as "theking" and so
know not to insert anything inbetween.

After all it is only comparatively recently that we have needed to know
where gaps come in sound chains because until the last century only a small
proportion of us learnt to read and write. The rest of us swanned around
happily illiterate and unaware that "Gimme" was a foreshortened "Give me"
or that 'would of' was a mishearing for 'would've'
{No I don;t want to start that one up again BUT I do think it has arisen
because people speak more than they read and write and it and other
mistakes such as they're/there/their arise as a result of a person's
experience in the 4 skills of language not being equal} Or that 'the king'
and 'a king' or 'my sister' etc comprised two words rather than a noun +
prefix.

So that when we come up with a word such as "Absobloodylutely" it is doubly
funny because we know it is breaking the 'rule' / accepted parlance.

Heather

PS who is to say that it only convention that makes us put gaps between
noun phrases!!! 

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