LL-L "Phonology" 2005.12.22 (08) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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22 December 2005 * Volume 08
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.12.22 (04) [E]

Hi David

This Omniglot description of Dutch pronunciation has a lot of mistakes in 
it, however short it may be, and describing D. <v> as [f] is one of them.

The other mistakes:

<auw> is not [Ou] but [au]
<ay> doesn't exist in Dutch, only in English or French loans, but then  
 it's pronounced as in that language
<e> is never [e] but [E], when short
<ee> is not [e] but [e:], or rather [e:I]
<ieuw> is not [i:u] but [iu]
<oo> is not [o] but [o:], or rather [o:U]
<uw> is not [y:u] but [yu]

and finally

<v> is not [f] but [f\]

Furthermore, <g> is describes as [R] intervocally, that would rather be [G]
and that <r> isn't pronounced before <g> is really nonsense.

So I wouldn't trust too much on Omniglot here...

Met de vriendelijke groeten van [mEt@ "f\rind at l@k@ "xrut@ f\an]
Ingmar Roerdinkholder ["INmar ru:rdINk"hOldEr] or ["ru:rdINkhOldEr]
 
David Barrow wrote:
>http://www.omniglot.com/writing/dutch.htm
>>has [f] for both <f> and <v>
>>Do you mean Dutch <v> is phonemically distinct from <f> and needs a
>separate symbol or that  <f>/<v> are phonetically different from the <f>
>= [f] of other languages and needs a different symbol
>> From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
>> Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.12.18 (01) [E]
>>
>> I cannot find the symbol for Dutch <v> in your Wiki X-SAMPA link.
>> Just [v\] that's for Dutch <w>.
>> I know it's confusing, Henry, but that's a totally different sound.
>> Dutch <v> isn't mentioned at all, probably there is no Sampa symbol for
>> it yet. I'll send in a proposal to use [f\] for that to the Sampa-guys.
>>
>> To avoid your and others' confusion in the future, the alternative Sampa
>> symbol [P] for Dutch <w> could be used instead of [v\]. [P] is also in
>> the
>> list.

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