LL-L "Etymology" 2005.12.29 (02) [E/German]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 29 December 2005 * Volume 02
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From: "jonny" <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.12.28 (06) [E]

Dear Ron and Roger,

you wrote about
> > baaie, baalje: hek (cf. French baille)
> In Low Saxon of Germany we use _balje_ (<Ballje>) for 'basin' or 'tub' as
> well (though in French Flanders it means something different).

During my research about the name of my home village ("Balje") I found out:

" Wir wissen, vor allem aus alten Seekarten, dass Balje im Laufe der
Jahrhunderte
mehrfach den Namen geändert hat: aus dem ersten „Balka“ wurde
„Balgha“,
„Balghe“, und über „Ballie“ (17./18. Jh.) entstand dann
schließlich das
heutige „Balje“.
Schaut man jetzt einmal unter „balko“ in ein altsächsisches
Wörterbuch, wird
man erfahren, dass dieses zum einen die Bedeutung „Balken“ hat, aber
ebenso als
„Vorsprung“ interpretiert wird. (Unser heutiger „Balkon“ ist
vielleicht auch
ein „Nachkomme“ dieses Wortes.)
Sucht man dann weiter nach anderen, ähnlich klingenden Ortsnamen, findet
man zuerst
sicher „Balge“ an der Weser, dann aber auch, ganz in der Nähe,
„Bülkau“,
dessen Urform ebenfalls „Balko“ ist.
Alle drei Orte haben eines gemeinsam: sie liegen in ehemaligen
Ãœberflutungsgebieten
und könnten daher sehr wohl eine „vorspringende Landzunge“ bezeichnet
haben."

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: "Paul Finlow-Bates" <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.12.28 (06) [E]

From: R. F. Hahn
Subject: Etymology

> baaie, baalje: hek (cf. French baille)

This makes me revisit Afrikaans _baie_ 'much', 'very' again, which is said
to have come from Malay _banyak_ 'large', 'great', 'much', very'. As far
as I am informed, the Malay provenance has never been proven.

Could _baie_, too, come from French _baille_, in the beginning with the
meaning 'large amount' ("(a) tubful")?

Wondering ...

Reinhard/Ron

I always wondered about the origin of Afr."baie".  When I first visited the
Netherlands many years ago, I was talking about similarities and
differences  of
Dutch and Afrikaans.  I mentioned the use of "baie", and was told that
while it
wasn't a normal word, "Dutch people would know what you meant". That would be
unlikely if it was from Malay, I would have thought, because even if it
came into
Dutch from a similar Indonesian word, the mutatation from -banyak- to
"baie" is very
large, and it is unlikely to have gone the same way in two different
continents.

  Paul

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Jonny, Paul, Lowlanders!

Jonny, if the etymology you found bears any water (no pun intended) we are
probably talking about two words rather than about one.

The _balje_ (< French _baille_) I was talking about is a wash basin or
washtub (_Waschbecken_, _Washzuber_, _Waschschüssel_, etc.) and doesn't
seem to have anything to do with a spit of land (in older Low Saxon also
_nese_ > _nees'_ "nose", as in place names like Blankenese).

Paul:

> I mentioned the use of "baie", and was told that while it
> wasn't a normal word, "Dutch people would know what you meant".

I rather suspect they meant "understand within a given context," if not
also because of frequent exposure to Afrikaans (_baie_ being one of its
shibolets).

> because even if it came into
> Dutch from a similar Indonesian word, the mutatation from
> -banyak- to "baie" is very
> large, and it is unlikely to have gone the same way in two
> different continents.

Not that I want to necessarily defend the Malay loan hypothesis, but I
need to add here that in Malay (incl. Indonesian, in fact throughout
Southeast Asia) final stops are unreleased and to untrained ears sound as
though they were absent or are just "clipped."

Groete,
Reinhard/Ron

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