LL-L "Phonology" 2005.02.06 (01) [E/F]

[Lowlands-L]

Sorry. This one got away too soon. I hate it when that happens. RFH
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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Riddle" 2005.02.05 (04) [E/LS], phonology?

> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
>
> P.S.: Arend above: "’t Raodsel giet aover een haane."  Hmm ... very
> interesting to see the _-e_ in the masculine noun (for "rooster")!
> This
> seems to indicate extreme conservatism in your Twente Low Saxon
> dialect,
> namely retention of a reflex of Old Saxon _-o_.  It's _haan_ in most
> sister
> dialects.

It Westerlauwersk Frysk hat hjir ek de einnichste -e behâlden: hoanne (<
hona, yn it Aldfrysk) mei de typyske a > o foar [n] (ek yn moanne "month",
"moon" < (mona(þ))) De útspraak is mei [wa] út nijfryske brekking, dus
[(h)wan@], [mwan@])

Mei freonlike groetnis,

Henno Brandsma

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From:  R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Tige tank, Henno!

> It Westerlauwersk Frysk hat hjir ek de einnichste -e behâlden: hoanne
> (< hona, yn it Aldfrysk) mei de typyske a > o foar [n] (ek yn moanne
> "month", "moon" < (mona(þ))) De útspraak is mei [wa] út nijfryske
> brekking, dus [(h)wan@], [mwan@])

'rooster':
O.Eng. _hana_ > ?
O.Fris. _hona_ > M.W.Fris. _hoanne_
Old Sax. _hano_ > Mod.No.Sax. _haan_ (<Hahn> ~ <Hohn>)
Old Germ. _hano_ > Mod.Germ. _Hahn_
O.Nor. _hani_ > Mod.Ice. __, Norw. _hane_
Gothic _hana_
Germanic *_hanan_

'to make':
O.Eng. _macian_ > M.Emg. _make_
O.Fris. _makia_ > M.W.Fris. _meitsje_
Old Sax. _makôn_ > Mod.No.Sax. _maken_ (<maken> ~ <moken>)
Old Franc. _makon_ > Mod.Dutch _maken_
Old Germ. _mahhôn_ > Mod.Germ. _machen_
O.Nor. _maka_ > Mod.Ice. __, Norw. _make_
Germanic *_makon_
Ind-Eur. *_maĕ-_

'moon':
O.Eng. _môna(þ)_ > M.Emg. _moon_
O.Fris. _mona(th)_ > M.W.Fris. _moanne_
Old Saxon _mâno_ > Mod.No.Saxon _maan(d)_ (<Maan(d)> ~ <Moon(d)>)
Old Franc. _mâno_ > Mod. Dutch __
Old Germ. _mâno_ > Mod.Germ. _Mond_
O.Nor. _mâni_ > Mod.Ice. _máni_, Norw. _måne_
Gothic _mena_
Germanic *_menan_
Ind-Eur. *_mên_ ~ *_mêns_ ~ _mês_

'month':
O.Eng. _mônaþ_ > M.Emg. _month_
O.Fris. _monath_ > M.W.Fris. _moanne_
Old Sax. _mânuth_ > Mod.No.Sax. _maan(d)_ (<Maan(d)> ~ <Moon(d)>)
Old Franc. _mânôd_ > Mod.Dutch __
Old Germ. _mânôd_ > Mod.Germ. _Monat_
O.Nor. _mânaðr_ > Mod.Ice. _mánuður_, Faer. _mánaður_,  Norw. _måned_
Gothic _menoþs_
Germanic *_menoþ_
Ind-Eur. *_mênôt_

So, clearly, this confirms that the words for 'rooster' and 'to make' have
short vowels in Old Saxon. These came to be lengthened.  This is how it
remained in the farwestern modern dialects, thus creating a contrast between
/aa/1 (> [Q:] > [o:]) and /aa/2 (> [a:]), which in most dialects farther
east (in what is now Germany) have come to be leveled to uniform /aa/ (>
[Q:] > [o:]).

Thus, for the above I would expect the following in the far west:

*_hane_ ~ *_haan_
*_maken_
*_maon(e)_
*_maond_

In a streamlined orthography like the AS, thus, this farwestern phonemicized
distinction ought to be made (supposedly in the form of <aa> vs <ao>).  I
would suggest to make it *only* in such dialects, using <aa> in all dialects
that do not make this distinction.  (In comparative/contrastive
presentations one could provide a note explaining to farwestern dialect
speakers that <aa> stands for their <ao> in the eastern dialects.)

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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From:  Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.02.06 (01) [E/F]

In case its of value to anyone, here are my (Twente) additions:

Ron schreev:
 >
> 'rooster':
> Old Saxon _hano_ > Mod. N. Saxon _haan_ (<Hahn> ~ <Hohn>)
 >
Mod. Twente Saxon _hane_

> 'moon':
> Old Saxon _mâno_ > Mod. N. Saxon _maan(d)_ (<Maan(d)> ~ <Moon(d)>)
>
Mod. Twente Saxon _maone_

> 'month':
> Old Saxon _mânuth_ > Mod. N. Saxon _maan(d)_ (<Maan(d)> ~ <Moon(d)>)
>
Mod. Twente Saxon _maond_

In Twente we have an -e suffix in many words.

Henry

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