LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.02.09 (04) [E]

Wed Feb 9 18:55:42 UTC 2005

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From:  Gavin Falconer <Gavin.Falconer at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.02.09 (02) [E]

Mark wrote:

"That got me to thinking about how our training material would sound if it
were written in Germanic side of our tongue.  It seems like it would have a
weird sound, but would be fully understandable."

Attempts to do just that occur not infrequently among writers of Scots.  A
good, and not entirely implausible, example is Hately Waddell's translation
of the Psalms, available at
http://members.lycos.co.uk/scotsleid/wabring/goring.php?action=next&id=2.
For English 'judge' he used "righter", no doubt based on the German.

Often those who try to avoid Latinisms end up writing gibberish, however, as
some modern "Ullans" writing shows.
--
All the best,

Gavin

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From:  Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.02.09 (01) [E]

Ron wrote: "Here, just for a lark and for a morsel of food for thought, is a
small
number of my own cooked-up English words (derived from real Old English
ones) I imagine to be used now if the naughty Normans had stayed south
of the Channel..."

Those examples were fantastic. Truly astounding - as you know, I thoroughly
enjoy such linguistic whataboutery. Could you give a sample text (perhaps
the Paternoster) in which you replace the terminology?

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From:  R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Lowlanders,

Here are a few Germanic-based Scots words that have latinate English
equivalents:

aff-pit (excuse)
backjaw (impudence)
owerset (translate)
bucksturdie (obstinate)
cry doun (disparage)
dab haun (expert)
forefowk (ancestors)
forenent (facing; in front of; opposite)
habble (confused, difficult, confusion)
hership (famine, ruin)
ill-tricket (mischievous)
indwaller (inhabitant, resident)
kail (soup)
keek (glance)
kist (coffin)
leid (language)
owrance [semi-lat.] (supremacy)
pee-the-bed (dandelion)
rowth (abundant, abundance)
unkent (unfamiliar)
wale (choose, select)
wanhowp (despair)
wanluck (misfortune)
waukrife (vigilant)
weill-hairtit (optimistic)
yondmaist (extreme)

And here is the opposite:

dominie (schoolmaster)
grozet (gooseberry)?
messages (shopping)
vacancy (holiday)
vocable (word)

(By the way, I wonder if Scots _mutch_ 'woman's cap' is related to German
_Mütze_, Low Saxon _müts_, Dutch _muts_.)

Hi, Críostóir!  Good to hear from you and to know you're a fellow-whatiffer!

> Could you give a sample text (perhaps the Paternoster) in which you
> replace the terminology?

Sure, but bear in mind that, had the Norman Conquest never occurred, the
grammar (morphology and syntax) of English would now be very different,
supposedly more complex, with the syntax more flexible (as in the
continental relatives).  So it's not just a matter of lexicon, and that's a
problem when you whatif a text.  Furthermore, _The Lord's Prayer_
(_Paternoster_) happens to be one of a few pieces that contains relatively
few latinate words.  However ... here's my attempt.

The classic:

   Our Father, who art in heaven,
   Hallowed be thy Name.
   Thy kingdom come.
   Thy will be done,
   On earth as it is in heaven.
   Give us this day our daily bread.
   And forgive us our trespasses,
   As we forgive those who TRESPASS against us.
   And lead us not into TEMPTATION,
   But DELIVER us from evil.
   For thine is the kingdom, and the POWER, and the GLORY,
   for ever and ever.
   Amen.

"Delatinized":

   Our Father, who art in heaven,
   Hallowed be thy Name.
   Thy kingdom come.
   Thy will be done,
   On earth as it is in heaven.
   Give us this day our daily bread.
   And forgive us our WRONGDOING,
   As we forgive those who DO WRONG against us.
   And lead us not into *SWENK,
   But SET us FREE from evil.
   For thine is the kingdom, and the MIGHT, and the *THRIM,
   for ever and ever.
   Amen.

*swenk ~ *swink (< swenc) ~ *costing (< costnung)
*thrim (< thrymm) ~ *muckleness (< mycelness)

If you translate it from one of the actual Old English versions:

   Fæder ure þu þe eart on heofonum;
   Si þin nama gehalgod
   to becume þin rice
   gewurþe ðin willa
   on eorðan swa swa on heofonum.
   urne gedæghwamlican hlaf syle us todæg
   and forgyf us ure gyltas
   swa swa we forgyfað urum gyltendum
   and ne gelæd þu us on costnunge
   ac alys us of yfele soþlice

You get this:

   Our Father, thou that art in Heaven,
   Be thine name hallowed
   to become thine reach
   come forth thine will
   on earth so also in Heaven.
   Our daily loaf give us today
   and forgive us our guilt
   and lead thou us not to swenk

   but set us truly free from evil

The other extreme ("Latinized"):

   Our father* who resides in the Empyrean Sphere,
   May your name experience sanctification.
   May the final establishment of your realm eventually come to pass.
   May your intentions be realized,
   In the terrestrial sphere as in the celestial one.
   Supply us presently with our diurnal sustenance,
   And absolve us from culpability caused by our misconduct,
   As we absolve and pardon those that commit transgressions affecting us.
   And avoid guiding us into tempting situations,
   But liberate us from infernal iniquity.
   Because you are the possessor of the royal dominion, the sovereignty and
the glory,
   Eternally, interminably.
   Amen.

* or even "paternal/male parent"

Enjoy!
or *_Neet!_ ~ *_Nit!_ (< néotan ~ nyttian)

Reinhard/Ron

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