LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.02.09 (07) [A/E]
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Thu Feb 10 01:28:31 UTC 2005
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Lexicon" [E]
> From: Gavin Falconer <Gavin.Falconer at gmx.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.02.09 (02) [E]
>
> Attempts to do just that occur not infrequently among writers of Scots. A
> good, and not entirely implausible, example is Hately Waddell's
translation
> of the Psalms, available at
> http://members.lycos.co.uk/scotsleid/wabring/goring.php?action=next&id=2.
> For English 'judge' he used "righter", no doubt based on the German.
This link didn't work for me - I don't even know what it is but it somehow
redirects to my site!
Waddell's Psalms are actually at:
http://scotstext.org/makars/p_hately_waddell/
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Lexicon
>
> Here are a few Germanic-based Scots words that have latinate English
> equivalents:
>
> owerset (translate)
A made-up Lallanism, I think. in Scots I think "pitten ower" (put over) is
the most natural way to say "translated".
> leid (language)
This was confined to Orkney but is now popular as a Lallanism.
> pee-the-bed (dandelion)
Or "pish-the-bed" :)
> grozet (gooseberry)?
I don't think you need to question this - "grozet" /'groz@?/ is well known,
at least in my area, for a gooseberry.
> (By the way, I wonder if Scots _mutch_ 'woman's cap' is related to German
> _Mtze_, Low Saxon _m ts_, Dutch _muts_.)
East Lothian bondagers up until the early 20th century used to wear a sort
of mutch but with the rim so extended like a funnel that their faces were
hidden deep within. These bonnets were called "uglies". According to the
Scottish National Dictionary, they were so called because they were
unattractive to look at.
Sandy
http://scotstext.org/
----------
From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.02.09 (01) [E]
Hi, Arthur, Mark Brooks, Peter, Ron,
Subject: "Resources"
> Parev, Leeglanners!
Let me add insult with my Afrikaans!
> English English Afrikaans
> Romance: Germanic:
> Injure Scathe Skade
> Fiduciary Trust Troue
> Convey Sell Verkoop
> Transfer Set over Oordrag / oordra
> Constitute Make Maak
> Appoint Name Benoem
> Purchase Buy Koop
> Tort Wrong Onreg
> Tenant Holder Bewoner
> Payment Fee Vergoeding
Ron's speculative English My
spoken Afrikaans
> abandon, to: *swike (< (ge)swîcan) swyg, (to
withold comment) what about verlaat?
> abyss: *deepness (<déopness) diepte,
depths
> achievement: *last, *lest (< lǣst, last, lest) daad
> air: *loft, *lift (< loft, lyft)
lug
> ardent: *gale, *gail, *gol, *gall (< gâl) gloeiend
(glowing) or vurig (fiery)
> artist: *wright (< wyrhta)
kunstenaar
> attack: *thraw, *throw (< þrâg) aanval
> attention: *ettle (< æhtle; cf. Sc. ettle) aandag
> audacity: *mayness, *mawness (< gemâgness) moed (or oormoed) "Tha se
eorl ongan for his ofermode"
as the scop sang of his Ealdorman at Maldon
> cage: *shrine (< scrîn)
kou, skryn isn't quite the same - 'screen'
> capitol, main city: *headstow (< héofodstôw) hoofstad
> caress, to: *love, *teat (< (ge)lufian, tǣtan) liefkoos
> carpenter: *smith (< smiþ; also smith) skrynwerker
(see above)
> cathedral: minster (< mynster) katedraal
( sorry, Kerklatyns)
> cellar: *clive (< clîfa)
kelder (sorry, ?)
> chair: *stool (< stôl)
stoel
> chamber: *bower, *clive (< bûr, clîfa) kamer
> city: borough, *boroughstead, *chester, town (< burg(stede), ceaster, tûn)
stad, burg
> cloister: *clouse (< clûse)
klooster, kluis (Kerklatyns)
> coast: *sealand (< sǣland) kus,
strand
> coffin: *chest (< ciest)
kis
> command(o): *teaching (< tǣcing) study,
subject, learning (the noun) ?commando?
> corpse: *like(ham), *flesham (< lîkhama, flǣschama) lyk (the corpse)
liggaam (the living body) Eng 'lych'?
> country estate: *seat (< sǣta)
besitting (not quite spot-on), landgoed
> crucify, to: *rodefasten (< rôdefæstnian) verkruis
(roede won't do. It means 'tumescence' to us)
> deceased: *stirvy, *stervy, *starvy, *sleepen (< styrfig, (ge)slǣpan)
dood, gesterf, oorlede, gevrek
> dirge: *sorrowleeth (< sorgléoþ) weëklag
> ejaculate, to: *indrive, *drive in (< indrîfan) ? uitstoot
(woord), uitroep (woord) skiet, uitspuit
> emperor: *ca(y)ser (< câsere) keiser
> entrance: *ongang (< ongang) ingang
> entry: *ingang (< ingang)
ingangs
> except: *bouten (< bûtan)
buitens, uitgesonder
> excursion: *outfare (< ûtfaru)
uitvaert
> exit: *wirft, *werft, *outgang, *outing (< wyrft, ûtgenga) uitgang
> face: *antlit, *sighth (< andwlita, gesihþ) aangesig,
gesig
> funeral: *beburiedness (< bebyrgedness) begrafnis
> general: *onely, *ainly, *main (< ânlic, gemæne) algemeen
> genitals: *kind (< (ge)cynd)
geslagsdele.
> guilty: *shildy, *skildy (< scyldig)
skuldig
> honor(ing): *worthing (< weorþung) eerbied
> honor: *ore, *are (< âr(e)) eer
> honorable: *orely, *arely (ârlic(e))
erewaardig
> horizon: *kimming (< cimbing; cf. Fries./LS kim(ming)) horison (alas!)
> incest: *siblair (< sibbleger)
bloedskande
> inspection: *showing (< scéawung) skouing, or
inspeksie
> iris (flower): *fane (< fana) flap,
lisblom
> lamp: *blase (< blæse) lamp
> lesson: *read(ing) (< hrǣd(ung)) les, lesing
(lecture)
> lethargy: *sleeperness (< slâporness) slaperigheid
> literature: *stave (< stæf)
letterkunde
> luxury: *galeship, *gailship, *gollship (< gâlscipe) weelde, oordaad
(see above), luuksheid
> (market) fair: *year market (< géarmarcet) mark, vendusie
> offer: *tobringness (< tobrengness) aanbod
> peace: *freed (< fréod, fríod, fréoþu, friþ(u)) vrede
> penis: *nock, *pintle (< hnocc, pintel; cf. Sc. pintle, LS pint) piel;
reputedly from the Latin 'pilum' (spear), an
ancient loanword, if true.
> plan: *findle (< fyndel)
plan, ontwerp
> (public) office: *ambight, *amt (< ambiht) amp, but watch
it - ambag is 'apprenticeship'
> requirement: *behoofth (< behœfþu) vereiste,
behoefde
> sacrament: *holidom (< hâligdôm) sakrament
(Kerklatyns)
> season: *tide, *meal, *thraw, *throw (< tîd, mǣl, þrâg) seisoen,
jaargety, tyd
> sign of the cross: *rodetoken (< rôdetâken) kruisteken
> stomach: *may, *in(ne)th (< maga, mage, inneþ) maag
> trinity: *threeness (< þriness)
Drie-eenheid
> unmarried, single: *loose (< léas) ongetroud,
ongehuud, egteloos
> urine: *mig, *mee (< migca, migce) piss. (isn't
this a good old-fashioned Anglo-Saxon word?
> vanity: *idleness (< îdelness)
ydelheid
> vein: *ather, *ether, *eather (< æþeru) aar
> venerable: *oreworth, *areworth (< ârewyrþe) erewaardig (see
above), eerbiedwaardig, agbaar
> village: *thorp (< þorp)
dorp
> virgin: *feamin, *feamen (< fǣmne; cf. Fries. fomen 'girl'; cf. Lat.
femina) maagd (see stomach, above
(maiden in English?)
> wantonness: *galeness, *gailness, *gollness, *gallness (< gâlness)
wulpsheid, baldadigheid, euwelmoed
Jislaaik, that was fun! Thanks.
Mark
---------
From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2005.02.08 (04) [E]
Dear Mark Brooks
Subject: LL-L "Resources"
> On the subject of resources...does anyone know of an English-English
on-line
> resource that would give the "Germanic" equivalent of a "Romance" word,
and
> vice versa?
Seconded to that!
Mind you, the fact that you're interested means that justabout every entry
in it would probably already be at your fingertips. Think about it!
Now, would it take the shape of a 'bilingual dictionary' in which "Teutonic
roots" only, A to Z, would be redefined in the Romance context in the first
half, & "Romance roots" only, A to Z, in the Teutonic in the second? Only in
the English language would this be a convincing exercise. Mind you, it may
be that modern Persian could come close with Farsee roots & Semitic roots.
Come to think of it, how about Rumanian, with Romance & Slavonic. That'll
teach me for starting to speculate...
Yrs,
Mark Dreyer
----------
From: Ruth & Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.02.08 (03) [E/LS]
Hola Jonny en Ron,
Onderwerp "Lexicon"
Dankie vir 'n heel prikkelende korrospondensie (hierdie hele string is darem
lekker)! Ek vind, tot my pure plesier, ek sukkel nie om julle gesprekke te
verstaan nie, maar moet asseblief nie verwag dat ek ook in Platts bydra nie.
Jonny, dit maak seer, hoe die eens magtige Saksiese tale nou
agteruitgaan. Ek gee toe ek het maar 'n vaë persoonlikke belang hierin, maar
tog.
Soos Ron hieronder vermeld, val dit my darem by hoe gebruik die verskeie
dialekte die vorms gelykstaande aan ons 'soggens' en 'saans' pleks van 'am
morgen' und 'am abend'.
Ron, mag ek met jou verskil oor u siening van die leenrigting van
skeepvaerttaal, oa. die woord 'bak' as 'n leenwoord uit die Engels 'back'?
Kyk nou, die Afrikaans vir ieder kant van 'n boot is 'stuurboord' en
'_bak_boord'. Dit het ons van die worteltale van Afrikaans oorgeërf, beslis
nie van die Engels (met hulle 'larboard' of 'portside'), geleen nie.
Weliswaar, dis die Engelse skeepvaerttaal wat grotendeels uit die Diets
geleen is (van die os op die esel - ahem); bv. Eng. 'boom' - Diets 'boom'
en so die hele lys af:
Eng - Diets
mast - mas
orlop - oorloop
bent - bind
deck - dek
caulk - kalk
clinker - klinker
course - koers
draught - drag
stay - stag
haul - haal
heave - hef
yaht - jagt
ketch - kage
tot en met...
schooner - skone! (vir ons Amerikaanse vriende)
Verskoning; ek het ieder die Afrikaanse woorde vir die voorbeelde gebruik,
maar ek skat hulle sal net so mooi uit enige ander van die Noordsee kustale
die 'leenrigting' wys!
Groete,
Mark
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon
Haai, liewe Arthur, Mark en almal!
Arthur,
Old English _wyrhta_ ["wYrxta] can indeed mean 'artist', also 'craftsman',
'artisan,' 'worker', etc. I have a very strong hunch that all these ideas
used to be wrapped into one at the time the language was used. A craftsman
was also an artist. It's basic meaning seems to be something like 'maker'
or 'creator'. Apparently, _wyrht_ [wYrxt] means '(creative) work',
'creation' and 'service'.
Mark:
> Dankie vir 'n heel prikkelende korrospondensie
Baie dankie vir jou diplomatiese woordkeuse, liewe Mark. ;-) En dis 'n
aangename verrassing dat jy die gesprekke in "Platt" volg en verstaan. Nee,
ons verwag nie dat jy in dieselfde taal antwoord nie. Meertaligheid is een
van die plesiere van ons lys, nè (ten minste vir jou en my)? En ek geniet
steeds om bydraë in Afrikaans te lees (alhoewel ek die taal ook self graag
gebruik, en ek doen dit op my eie afsonderlike wys, soos jy kan sien).
> Soos Ron hieronder vermeld, val dit my darem by hoe gebruik die
verskeie
> dialekte die vorms gelykstaande aan ons 'soggens' en 'saans' pleks van
'am
> morgen' und 'am abend'.
In (Neer-)Saksies het ons ook die woord _ucht_ (julle spelling: _oegt_) >
_(tou) ucht_ (julle spelling: _(tou) oegt_) 'soggens', 'vroeg smôrens',
'smôrens in die skemertyd'. Maar weens "verduitsing" van hulle taal
verstaan die meeste mense in Noordduitsland dit nie meer nie.
In Duits is dit _morgens_ en _abends_ of _am Morgen_ en _am Abend_, maar vir
_ucht_ ken ek keen woord.
In (Neer-)Saksies gebruik ons die woord _schummer-tyd_ (<Schummertiet>,
julle spelling: "sjoemertied") voor die skemertyd saans. (Kan 'n mens in
Afrikaans ook "skemertyd" sê? Of is dit net "skemer"?)
> Ron, mag ek met jou verskil
Liewe Mark, dit mag jy altyd! Teenoorgesteld enigiemand sy opvatting het ek
geen aansoek alles te weet en steeds reg te hê nie. Ek stel vertrouwe in
jou glo in hierdie verklaring, ook in jou vriendelike houding teenoor my, en
dus het jy dit nie nodig om my om verskoning te vra nie.
> u siening van die leenrigting van
> skeepvaerttaal, oa. die woord 'bak' as 'n leenwoord uit die Engels 'back'?
> Kyk nou, die Afrikaans vir ieder kant van 'n boot is 'stuurboord' en
> '_bak_boord'. Dit het ons van die worteltale van Afrikaans oorgeërf,
beslis
> nie van die Engels (met hulle 'larboard' of 'portside'), geleen nie.
Ja, _bakbourd_ (<Backboort>) en _stuyrbourd_ (<Stüürboort>) sê ons ook, maar
die woord _bak_ alleen word in die taal nou selde gebruik, en dan skynbaar
merendeels in die dialekte van die gebied van die hawestad Hamburg. (Die
normale woorde met "back" bevat _rug_, soos _tou rug_ > _trug_ [trYC]
'terug'.) Ja, dit kan 'n toeval wees. _Bak_ is 'n oud Germaans woord (b.v.
Deens _bag_). Maar dis ook nie ontmoontlik nie dat 'n taal 'n sekere woord
verloor en later weer van 'n verwante taal leen. Ek wil nie verklaar nie
dat dit in hierdie val werklik so is, maar aangesien die omstandigheide lyk
dit moontlik te wees.
Groete,
Reinhard/Ron
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