LL-L "Language use" 2005.07.17 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 17.JUL.2005 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
Subject: Language use

Beste Paul,

> Paul wrote:
>
>> Perhaps speakers of various non-mainstream Lowlands dialects can help
>> me.
>> How do you feel about foreigners attempting the tongue (as opposed
>> to, for
>> example, speaking standard German or Dutch)?
>

Mmm...tricky question, I think. The first reaction of many people will
be one of bewilderment...followed by pride (aha, he is definitely on his
way to become one of ours :-) ). Personally I find it very charming...I
get the same feeling, hearing a baby or a very young child speak
dialect...something I had not expected...something that disarms me
completely :-) . I don't think any native speaker will fear having lost
some privacy...secrecy never being much of an issue in Brabantish (this
is no thieves' Latin).

Then...second thoughts spring up...

The reaction may also have something to do with your (perceived) status.
During the years we regularly had professional Australian cyclists who
started living in Belgium. Whenever I hear these chaps speak Dutch I
can't resist thinking how well they speak it. What makes their speech
even more agreeable is the fact that very often you will "hear" the
local colour. Surely because among cyclists quite a lot of dialect is
still heard. As an aside, these "Australians" are usually pretty good
cyclists, so they can be seen regularly on tv...and as you (may) know,
cycling is still big in Belgium, so their linguistic abilities sure
exude the notion of "success".

However...

It's not only about what you say...the way you say it also plays a role.
Let me give you an example that deals with second or third-generation
migrants living in Antwerp. According to a scientific article that I
read in "Taal en Tongval", some of those youngsters mock their
classmates/teachers when they speak the local dialect. Here's the
abstract (whole article is almost 30 pages long):

"In spite of the dominant stereotypes about Moroccan boys in Flanders as
unwilling or incompetent speakers of Dutch, recent school-ethnographic
research indicates that not only are their linguistic repertoires
abundantly multilingual, but these boys also display a lively and varied
Dutch competence which among other things points out that these boys are
unmistakably integrated into Flemish society. On a daily basis, Moroccan
boys could be observed using several Dutch varieties such as Antwerp
dialect, Standard Dutch and learner Dutch. This mostly playful practice
appeared to be inspired by what these boys called doing ridiculous or
counteracting, which generally involved 'having fun while not being all
too deferent'. Antwerp dialect was a major resource for doing ridiculous
as it helped project playful and burlesque caricatures of angry Belgians
at precisely those moments when sanctioning or evaluation was in the
air, while it also supported undeferential and non-ironic remarks that
constructed a certain assertiveness in the face of authority. Styling
Antwerp dialect in this fashion thus emerged as one of the ways in which
Moroccan boys shaped and negotiated their participation at school, or as
how they explored the boundaries of self-initiated action in situations
that promised little more than a marginal influence on the flow of things."

I know it may not be entirely appropriate to quote this article here, as
it concerns primarily Moroccan boys, and mind you, they are no
foreigners in this country; but still it provides some insight into how
people that have been raised in a mixed environment can (ab)use their
knowledge of the local tongue. I dare not speculate how this is viewed
by local teachers, but being a teacher myself too, I found it very
interesting. By the way, my school is located in Brussels, hence the
linguistic background is utterly different and cannot be compared.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

----------

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2005.07.17 (02) [E]


Críostóir wrote:

"In Perth and Fremantle in Western Australia
it is common to be served in "Irish" theme pubs by people with regional
English (especially from the north of England), ...... Any will
do! "
It would, of course, be illegal in Australia to discriminate against 
potential employees on ethnic grounds anyway.

Paul

==============================END===================================
Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
are  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================